Where does arcane magic come from?

[RangerWickett]

Arcane Magic? Divine Magic? Why the distinction? Magic exists, like God exists. If you don't believe in God, you will have a hard time drawing upon God's power, and even if God does perform a miracle, you'll ascribe some other explanation. Even in the same religion, people view God in slightly different ways, and around the world, everyone's divinities vary from place to place, but over 90-some-odd percent of the world believes in some form of higher power. From a mythic standpoint, they probably all have it at least a little right, and though what one religion calls God, another religion might call a demon, most would still recognize its existence, if not its role in the metaphysical universe.

Thus, in my game world, there is no divine or arcane magic. It's all magic. There are two spellcasting core classes--wizard (for those who study magic) and sorcerer (for those to whom magic comes naturally). Bards, clerics, and druids are still available, but they are examples of specialized types of spellcasters. A core spellcaster, with no particular moral bent, can theoretically access any spell.

An actual celtic Druid might be called a pagan sorcerer by a Christian priest, but in game terms he'd be a bard. The priest might study apocryphal sources and find magic that he believes is handed down from God, and he might call himself a cleric, but in game terms he's actually just a wizard who chose to learn healing spells and alchemy.

Magic is mystery. You can never define it, and if you try, you'll be wrong.

 

[RangerWickett]

Way to kill a thread.

 

[uv23]

ok bumparoonie.. i want more discussion on this!

 

[LostSoul]

Arcane magic is an attempt to rationalize the subconcous mind. The spirit world. Emotion. Sorcerers innately understand this, and thus use Charisma as thier prime attribute.

Divine magic is the same, spoken through the Word of gods. Divine Inspiration.

Psionics is the exploration of the same thing through different methods (either physical or mental).

Or so it goes in my campaign.

 

[reiella]

Hmm I keep magic as a general unknown for my world.

Some theories (and those who attest them as the truth) basically define it as a primal force that can be manipulated. But what it comes down is that neither really know why what they do works (or psions for that matter).

 

[Henry@home]

Arcane magic is an attempt to rationalize the subconcous mind. The spirit world. Emotion. Sorcerers innately understand this, and thus use Charisma as thier prime attribute.

Divine magic is the same, spoken through the Word of gods. Divine Inspiration.

Psionics is the exploration of the same thing through different methods (either physical or mental).

Or so it goes in my campaign.

This has hints of the "thinking about this waaaay too hard," category. First of all, In both DragonLance and Forgotten Realms, the magic may be governed by gods, but no religious devotion is required at all. There ARE renegade Wizards in Dragonlance, who pay not alleigance to any god, and not even lip service.

In the Forgotten Realms, on can be a godless atheist, paying homage to no deity at all, and can use Magic all the same as a devout follower of Mystra who is a wizard. Arcane magic is indeed in the "physics" in a world. Without magic, Dragons cannot fly or even breathe; monks cannot leap stories high; Bards could not charm men with their songs. Magic is so innate, that some things that would not be possible in a real environment STILL go on, becauce they are so ingrained that even anti-magic cannot turn it off (a golem, for example, or a dragon's breathing of air).

 

[Droogie]

I used to be in RangerWickett's camp of thinking; why have any distinction between types of magic at all? His argument makes sense.

But, I have to admit I'm being swayed into the "arcane magic=science" camp. Its the perfect analogy. In the real world, you have the profoundly religious who believe in the power of the almighty, and then you have the athiests who can explain the universe with natural laws and arcane mathamatical equations that only their peers can understand, and only through years of research and study. Then you have people who are both.



I think of sorcerers as the psychics of D&D- they possess powers beyond our understanding. Is it divine, or something explainable by a scientific principle not yet discovered? BTW, this is why I don't care much for psionics in D&D. Its redundant.

(edit: took out inane comment. Then again, most of my posts are inane.)

 

[Randolpho]

Personally, I think the exact definition of magic in general should be campaign specific, rather than "all encompasing". We saw with 2e the disaster that can come about (at least IMO) from attempting to cross-link campaign settings. I still have nightmares about the Kender/Minotaur duo that spell-jammed into our Birthright campaign. *shudder*

In *MY* campaign, I try to explain magic a bit. Much like everyone else, I try to use pseudo-physics to explain it, mostly because I'm so literal-minded and doing this helps me to suspend my disbelief in the world. So, I try to be "scientific" in my description, but without going *too* overboard. I take a nod from the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy, and a nod from Star Wars (Pre Ep1, no-mitochlorines thankyouverymuch).

Here's my take:

From Keeper Sanjeyn's On The Nature of Magic:

At any given instance of time, at every moment, there are an infinite number of possibilities as to what will occur in the next moment. One moment a person could be walking in their garden and in the next moment be walking on the moon, because every conceivable possibility exists in every moment. For the most part, however, these possibilities play out according to the laws of the world as we understand them; what goes up comes down, ice melts when it is heated. (Note: End HHttG / quantum mechanics homage, begin SWep4 homage)

This realm of possibility exists as a field, a "field of possibility", if you will. The potential exists for any outcome within the field, so long as the right stimuli are applied to the field. (End SW "Force" homage) Under normal circumstances, the actions of "everyday life" are the stimuli on this field that bring about the results of the next moment, and these all follow the basic laws of physics as we understand them today. There exists, however, the ability to manipulate the field of possibility by introducing artificial stimuli to create the desired affect. Zigging rather than zagging, a left turn rather than a right turn, remaining quiet rather than speaking; all of these are stimuli that can change the outcome of the next moment. This principle, when applied in specific ways, can be used to great effect -- seeming to break the laws of physics without actually doing so, simply by stacking the deck. This is defined, by the lay person, as magic.

Where did this field of possibility come from? Unfortunately, we do not know. The only Gods who are forthcoming on the subject are admittedly former mortals; they invariably defer to the Eternal Three. The Eternal Three, however, refuse to answer our questions on the origin of the field. They acknowledge its existence, indeed according to the teachings of Phodolandr it was they who instructed the Ascended as to its divine uses; they are, however, either unwilling or unable to answer the question of its origin.

...

There are three basic classes of magic in the world: Arcane, Divine, and Psionic. Arcane magic is the manipulation of the field of possibility through external or ritualistic means; practitioners of Arcane magic use chants, song, material focus, gesture or some combination thereof to achieve the desired effect. Wizards, Sorcerers and Bards practice the art of Arcane magic. Divine magic is the maniplation of the field of possiblity through the direct intervention of a diety; practitioners of Divine magic through prayer, meditation or ritual invoke their God, who grants or denies the supplication according to his or her divine whim. Clerics, Paladins, Rangers, and Druids practice the art of Divine magic. Psionic magic is the manipulation of the field of possibility through sheer willpower, by thought alone; practitioners need only concentration to create wonders. Psions, Psychic Warriors and Monks practice the art of Psionic magic.

This looks a bit long, I'm gonna cut some of it out. I have more if anyone cares...

 

[Aaron L]

I like Lovecraft magic. Magic is advanced science. Metacalculus, high order astral physics, that kind of thing. I dislike settings where gods provide all magic.

[that quote above posted by Randolpho is awesome, and along my lines of thinking. post the rest!]

 

[Randolpho]

Mostly it's just meta-game stuff -- explaining how each class manipulates the field of possibility in its own unique way, so I can fit the concept into the "D&D standard" mold.