Where does arcane magic come from?

[SSS-Druid]

I, too, prefer to keep things mysterious - not undefined, but mysterious. This provides an in-campaign variety in the types and abilities of different magicians.

Whereas one cabal of Wizards teaches that reality is a set of perfectly harmonized Celestial Spheres, and the introduction of "off-key tones" (thorough the use of words of power and incantation) allows the wizard to change the "song" on a local level, another teaches that the art of magic is harnessing the ambient energies that were brought into play when the Divine spoke the Word that created reality, and by repeating or warping parts of that First Word, the world might be remade on some small level.

In the Scarred Lands setting, magic is a primal force of nature. Like all of the primal forces, it was symbolized and epitomized by one of the Titans - Mesos, in this case. Mesos' high priests were those who were born touching and breathing that force, able to tap into it through the use of certain gestures, words of power and material correspondence symbolism.

Wizards are those thieves of power - they were not born with the ability to touch this essence. But, by studying the gestures, words and other components, they were able to "reverse engineer" the connections using what they knew of the way magic works. That's why a wizard needs a spellbook - he isn't "memorizing" a spell - he is using the painfully exhaustive formulae and rotes within its pages to tap into that potential, artifically giving himself the link that comes naturally to sorcerers.

 

[Arravis]

Well...

Well, as I recall our "old" definition of magic (going by the original manual of the planes) is the one I still preffer. I now game in FR, and the whole "Weave" thing is interesting, but to be honest, I don't really like it.

As I recall, the old way we used to do it is that an arcane caster learns to tap into the negative and positive energy planes. If he wants to cast a fireball, he taps into the positive energy plane for the destructive explosion. If he wants to level drain, he simply taps into the negative energy plane. Most spells, use a combination of the two, using one force to shape, manipulate or limit the other, much like an artist uses shadows and highlights. Basicly, a wizard is a faucit to the negative and positive energy planes, hot and cold water, finely controlled to achieve different results.

I dislike the "weave", cause I always saw arcane casters as truly independent of the gods. I loathe the idea of having to basicly beg them for power, and they grant it at their whim. That's the realm of clerics, not wizards. Maybe it's just me...

-Arravis

 

[Deadguy]

Re: Well...

I dislike the "weave", cause I always saw arcane casters as truly independent of the gods. I loathe the idea of having to basicly beg them for power, and they grant it at their whim. That's the realm of clerics, not wizards. Maybe it's just me...

No, you're not alone!

Forgotten Realms has really distorted the perception of magic in D&D, and it's disturbing how often the concept of the 'Weave' leaks out into other settings, as though it's the norm of magical systems.

Personally, I generally don't like to examine the question of what magic is too closely. Not because it isn't interesting, but because that explanation can then take on a life of its own and distort the magic system. Both as players and DMs, we end up saying "well if magic is X, then of course it should be possible to do Y, and just about impossible to do Z". In the process you can then end up undermining the game mechanical concepts on which D&D is built.

From a practical perspective, it's far better to instead discuss the limits of magic - what magic can and cannot do in the game. This has actual uses in both adjudicating the game, and in shaping the expectations of its character practitioners. I have always liked the Ars Magica model of magic. At no point is there an attempt to really explain what magic is, beyond some vague notion of an Aristotelian-Platonic fusion of Form and Material. Instead, there are the known limits of magic, typified by certain Laws, each of which is expanded upon to give players and GMs the tools they need to decide what to do with magic.

In a game such as D&D, where a lot is made of balanced play, the why is a whole lot less important that the what.

 

[Tsyr]

IMC, "divine" magic, "elemental" magic (similar to arcane but not exact), "arcane magic", and "high magic" (Also similar to arcane, but not exact), and ki channeling all come from -essentialy- the same source, the residual mana that permiates the environment. All beings that possess an immortal soul (my worlds mythos) produce mana, it's a side effect of living. Mana is also produced in a few other ways... the earth itself produces so mana, so does the sun and the moon, fires produce some, and water "stores" mana in higher concentrations than normal, but it doesn't actualy produce any. Different types of casters just go about it in different ways.

"divine" magic is a cleric requesting their god or chosen dragon (my worlds mythos comming in to play again) to devote just a tiny fraction of their essence to manipulate the mana FOR them, then channel it through them. I use standard cleric and paladin rules for this.

"arcane" magic is a very structured, formalized way of casting. The gestures, components, words, and thought patterns, when imbued by a tiny part of the mana the caster themself produces, causes the residual outside mana to be drawn in to the caster and manipulated by the casters immortal soul and shaped into a spell. I use standard wizard rules for this, along with a new class unique to my setting.

"elemental" magic is similar to arcane magic, but it lacks many of the "hard and fast" limitations of traditional arcane magic... it's done by the immortal soul directly and almost instinctivly (much like sorcerers in a normal game), and can draw power for some spells by tapping the right elemental mana. I use Sov. Stone "elemental mages" for this, they replace druids and sorcerers at the same time. I also use a modified players-handbook Ranger that I call a Guardian.

"high magic" is a rare and dangerous form of Arcane magic. On the surface it is very similar to Arcane magic, but it involves awakening your immortal soul more than traditional arcane magic so that you have finer control over the elements you are working with. Unfortunatly, mortals aren't meant to have their immortal soul awakened that far, it throws the balance of their two souls out of balance... it slowly drives them insane. I use the WoT wilder class for this, along with slightly modified male channeling rules for everyone.

Ki channelers are essentialy unique amongst the mages, but they still use more or less the same power source. They use their own reserve of mana inside them, learning techniques to amplify the amount of mana they can produce and how to magnify the power of what they do produce. Of all the mages (except a few weak divine casters), ki channelers have the smallest immortal soul. They strive to keep their two souls in perfect balance, as part of how they generate the massive amounts of mana. I use the Psion and Psionic Warrior classes for ki channelers.

This is just my own quirky take on magic

 

[General Starlight]

What Is Arcane Magic?

What Is Arcane Magic?

The trickiest thing about this question is no matter how you answer it, the answer will have logical ramifications for the rest of your game. And the more detail you put into it, the greater the chance you may inadvertently put something less than consistent in your game. That's why it's often best to limit magic or think of it as rather rare in most worlds even where it is well understood. For example, it may be all over the place and the masses may even use it, much like we use T.V.s, but very very few understand it so well they can build a T.V.

Clerical magic is exactly like that, however. The cleric doesn't understand it, but are allowed to use it since god grants them this ability to help aid His servant in further serving His holy cause. Wizards, on the other hand, must understand magic and are best likened to scientists, probably physicists/mathematicians/chemists, though others are possible.

I tend to think of technology as the useful manipulation of energy while confined to the prime material plane, and magic as the useful manipulation of energy not necessarily confined to one plane but using or extending through multiple planes.

Resonance frequencies, shaped by material components and even thoughts, may, in some areas, open up gaps in the planes of existence and start energy flowing. If you know how, you can use this energy to help open up larger rifts, access more energy, use that to punch into planes of existence whose threshold energy is beyond the power of a simple brain, and continue the amplification process. Eventually, you may reach into a desired plane to bring in a desired effect and in a desired manner and location. No one should ever think a magic user's mind holds the vast power locked up in some of these spells, but only that it knows how to open these doors where such power can be found and manipulated.

Does this mean to play a mage properly you have to be a scientist? No. Is it over thinking the problem? Not really, IMHO. No one is forced to look harder than they wish at such matters. Confining your thoughts to what the spell says it does is often more than enough for good play. So while I find it highly useful to think about science in my adjudication of spells, such as using the principle of the path of least resistance, though it helps me, it is not necessary. But I do think it's fun, for me

Anyway, I wrote more on such a topic once. Where is it? Oh yes:

http://Villa.lakes.com/JamesStarlight/Eightmagics.html

Jim

 

[Zhure]

Well, if divine magic comes from divinity, then arcane magic must come from arcanity.

Damn logic.

Magic is like duct tape. It has a dark side, a light side, and it binds the universe together. No, wait, that's the Force.

Psionics is a channeling of internal power, at least from 1e. In 3e some of it comes across as channeling astral goo and ectoplasm.

In 1e it was clearly explained that MU's (translation: wizards) harnessed a tiny bit of energy from other dimensions. Casting a fireball was in essence pulling a bit of elemental plane of fire into the prime material plane. At least that's how many of the effects were described. I seem to recall that as a passage in the DMG and that psionics were personal energy influencing the world.

I don't think it can be defined to cross all DM's worlds. Each one can be unique and customized, but adding a specific definition just messes it up for someone else.

Hope that helps,
Greg

 

[Rubeus Hagrid]

In my game, Primal Magic created the Multiverse, which created the Gods because it was lonely., and they provide Clerical Magic, which is the application of Spirit and Will to Magic. The laws of "Real Physics" were an accident caused by the god who created Technology, a discipline that breaks down into the Good of Science and the Evil of Mechanology.

As for Psionics... Never found much use for them. I do have plans (Long story, but the Campaign world is about to pull a Zero Hour, since the characters are standing at the beginning of recorded history after a side-trip to the Astral and the sister-universe that one of the PCs is from, and some things are getting rebuilt) to end the war between Mechanology and Science and instead put in something that taps the force that perverts them from our own RL physics. The "extra bits" that make them Zelazny-esqe are going to get a new name and be available to characters using the Force rules from the Star Wars RPG.

But to answer the question... Magic doesn't come from anywhere. Everywhere and everything and everyone else comes from it.

 

[Bob Aberton]

You know, if you want an interesting explanation, check out some out some of those occult sites/books/etc. They have some pretty interesting takes on what magic is (and it come from people who actually, honestly, belive in Magic.). But here's my explanation:

Magic...Is. Magic comes from the Spirits, which are otherwordly and unseen, save to the Magician who knows of these arts to make things unseen Seen. Some might be termed Demons, others Angels, and still others Faeries. Magic is there, but unless you believe in it, no explanation will satisfy you.
-Arolas, Merlin of Avalon, successor to Taliesin, and head of the Sorcerer's Guild Circle, 189 A.R.D. (about 1412 A.D. in our reckoning).

I read one interesting book on the subject, "Good Magic" by Marina Medici. It has a good explanation of "Magic" and "Witchcraft," which is actually beliveable to your average post-modern skeptic. The explanation is something like this: Magic is, literally, in our mind. If you believe in Magic, then you will work magic, the same way as some people seeeverything as "Acts of God." The "World of Spirits," could be taken as an analogy for our own subconscious, and that is what the book makes its case on.
Anyway, this stuff is really quite interesting to me, as I occasionally have been known to dabble in the Occult and
Arcane. I actually have several "how-to" books on how to work "real" Magic. I myself am a skeptic to "DnD" style magic, but I find the above explanation quite reasonable


"Magic, in this sense, is a 'new' rediscovery of man's basic essence, that of the creator. It is the experience of going back inside yourself where nothing has ever happened yet and everrything is possible - where you can see yourself creating all of your reality."
-Marina Medici, "Good Magic"

 

[LostSoul]

This has hints of the "thinking about this waaaay too hard," category.

Hmmm... Was mine the post you wanted to reply to?

(Thinking about my definition for a second... I'd probably say that Divine Magic, in my campaign, comes from faith. Faith and faith alone; no need for pompous "gods" who wield power from on high.)

 

[BMF]

I only skimmed the thread, so this may have been mentioned already, but I like to think of arcane magic as a sort of science. Rather than being ancient lore, it is cutting edge tech.

Of course, in some time periods civilization has taken a step backwards so the sages of old are more learned than the younger ones. And the typical themes of ancient lost libraries of vast knowledge are the norm. It just depends on what time period of my campaign setting I'm playing in.

Divine magic on the other hand, comes from gods.