Where have all the heroes gone?

[Aaron L]

This isn't the same player who plays the "Rogues must steal" rogue, is he?

Thats what I was thinking when I first read this, too.


Hmmm, not really something I've encountered. Usually the people I game with and I like playing heroic types. Sometimes someone will play a shady character, and sometimes an outright villain, and it's a nice change of pace every once in a while, but no one does it as a matter of course.

Heck, every so often we've had specifically Evil games, where everyone is encouraged to make Evil characters (or at least shady Neutral ones) and they tend to be quite fun (when we manage to form a solid group with a common goal and not kill each other Once during one such game the characters just didn't get along together and we actually broke out into a fight right after leaving the building where we were assigned a mission by our villainous benefactor! Some of our most memorable games have been with Evil characters and we still talk about them they were so fun!), but no one makes Evil characters as a habit.


I don't understand the idea that all heroic characters are somehow boring vanilla characters. Is Spider-Man boring? Batman?! I certainly don't think so. Sees like a very limited perspective to me. Hopefully the guy isn't just looking for an excuse to be a jerk "in character" to the other characters (and players.)


Next tie he says that Good Guys are boring and vanilla, ask him his opinion of Batman. I'd be interested in seeing what he says. Yes, there is a reason that actors say that it's more fun to play the Bad Guys, but doing it all the time is a bit much.

I agree with you that maybe the best thing is to just tell him to sit out this campaign if he doesn't want to fit in with the heroic theme like everyone else. You don't want to have to force him to play a "boring" character, after all.

Or maybe suggest to him that he plays a reformed villain. maybe he could use the Tiamat character, but now he has seen the error of his ways and is seeking to redeem himself, but hasn't quite fully reached the light? A conflicted former villain seeking to redeem himself through good acts could hardly be called boring or vanilla.

If he does, indeed, have potential like you said, then hopefully you can help him to achieve that potential, and realize that playing Good characters is just as much fun as Evil ones.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Here's what I hate...

Me: The king's son has gone missing in the Swamp of Evil Nastiness. The general call for adventurers goes out....

Players: How much will the king pay us to get him back?

Can't they go out and do good deeds for the sake of doing good deeds and worry about rewards as a secondary concern?

My players are all WAAAAY too mercenary. For some reason, this happens only in D&D, however. In, say, Exalted, they're all about going out and doing good.

 

[Yair]

I like playing all kinds of games, but most of all the vanilla heroic kind thank you. An Evil or Mercenary campaign/character is great as a distraction once in a blue moon, but for the most part I just want to play a good heroic larger-than-life game.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Tell your player that he is not playing a protagonist. He is playing an antagonist. In "the movie" of your campaign, the audience will not empathize with his character. They will be rooting for the other characters (multiple protagonists), and his character will be playing the (admittedly important) role of antagonist.

And then simply tell him sorry, but the role of antagonist is your personal purview.

 

[kaomera]

Here's what I hate...

Me: The king's son has gone missing in the Swamp of Evil Nastiness. The general call for adventurers goes out....

Players: How much will the king pay us to get him back?

QFT.

If you want to play a greedy character, that's fine. But you're going to play an adventurer, damnit!!! (At least IMC) If you want something to be greedy about, think about the treasure horde that dragon up in the hills you've heard rumors about must have. Now, convince the rest of the party that you just have to go up there and swipe all that loot... C'mon, everyone knows dragons sleep allatime... It's not like we'll have to actually fight it or anything...

 

[Henry]

But this has got me thinking why is so hard now a days to find a game where the players want to be heroes not just powermad looters who use their power to further their own agenda and gods help the poor villagers. The other players have said the same thing that they to are tired of playing in a game filled with anti heroes.

Is it just in our area that this is common thing or is it more wide spread?

A lot of it I find is that more lately it seems that emphasis of fantasies is often on acquisitions - getting large sums of cash, being deadly and not getting told what to do, being calculated and cool, etc. It often happens the younger a person is (heck, I went through that stage of D&D characters myself back in my late teens) but it's seen through everything from board games to video games to pop music, and it's common in younger people, but it can be popular in older ladies and gents too. (In an interview this year, the rap star Onyx had said, "all the rap music these days is the same -- "I'm getting money; I'm getting women; I'll kill you. That's lame." )

The genre of fantasy involving selfless acts is a bit less common, and really always has been. Even the pulp novels of the 20's and 30's involved "manly wealthy men doing manly things" that just happened to benefit the world.

 

[Abraxas]

But this has got me thinking why is so hard now a days to find a game where the players want to be heroes not just powermad looters who use their power to further their own agenda and gods help the poor villagers. The other players have said the same thing that they to are tired of playing in a game filled with anti heroes.

Is it just in our area that this is common thing or is it more wide spread?

In my experience this sort of mercenary behaviour arises because too many DMs use the "you are heroes" line as an excuse to abuse the player's characters. I've seen to many times where DM's gloss over (or outright ignore) the good (non-monetary/treasure) things that happen to heroes after they save the town/princess/world. I've been in too many games where our character's risk their lives and the merchants in town still charge them triple price because we're outsiders, where the local sheriff still gives them grief at every instance, where the villains never turn over a new leaf, etc, etc. It gets discouraging after a while being forced into the masochistic hero role.

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

Ach - that's an annoying situation... is the player in question one of those who plays the same type of character in everything they do?


I think it's something about DnD that brings out the mercenary streak. IMO - Metagame speaking - it's an artefact of tying a large degree of character power to expensive gee-gaws. Leads to craving money to get the things?

Besides, if you rescue royal family members, then it's traditional to get rewarded with half the kingdom, a spouse and a pile of gold?

 

[DM_Jeff]

Where is my Redgar
Where is my Mialee
Where is my Cleric of Pelor
Where have all the heores gone...

Why don't you stay the evening
Kick back and sharpen your sword
And I'll fix a little something to eat
Oh I know your back hurts from slaying giant raptors
How do you take your ale my sweet
I will raise the children if you kill all the orcs

I'm going to the special hell.

-DM Jeff

 

[Einan]

Where is my Redgar
Where is my Mialee
Where is my Cleric of Pelor
Where have all the heores gone...

Why don't you stay the evening
Kick back and sharpen your sword
And I'll fix a little something to eat
Oh I know your back hurts from slaying giant raptors
How do you take your ale my sweet
I will raise the children if you kill all the orcs

I'm going to the special hell.

-DM Jeff

I applaud you, sir! Bravo!

Einan