D&D 5E Where to next? (post LMOP)

[overgeeked]

Admittedly, he did not spend a lot of time buffing the adventure, he ran it straight out of the book...

Yeah. There's your problem. If you run most modules straight without adjusting them at all they're going to suck. The designers can't anticipate exactly what your group composition or playstyle is going to be. The version we ran through was basically a faction gang war and series of heists. Think Oceans 11 by way of Narcos. The same skeleton presented in the module, but our DM spent a lot of time buffing the adventure and he did not run it straight out of the book. But this isn't a thread about that. So...

 

[Lyxen]

Yeah. There's your problem. If you run most modules straight without adjusting them at all they're going to suck. The designers can't anticipate exactly what your group composition or playstyle is going to be. The version we ran through was basically a faction gang war and series of heists. Think Oceans 11 by way of Narcos. The same skeleton presented in the module, but our DM spent a lot of time buffing the adventure and he did not run it straight out of the book. But this isn't a thread about that. So...

Of course, all adventures require some buffing to make them shine. My point it that DH starts so low that for me it's not even worth the work. You have to redo everything from the bottom up, even the plot is not that interesting anyway.

 

[Eltab]

Tomb of Annihilation has a built-in search-and-map capability, if your players like doing that. If the deathtrap tomb turns you off (it did for me), how about tracking down a legend about an abandoned dwarven mine full of ore and rare-metal ingots - which forgot to mention the resident dragon to chase off / beat?

 

[Mort]

Sounds like you had a terrible DM run it.

Yes a good DM can fix Dragon Heist, so can using some great online resources like the Alexandrian. But the adventure, as written has serious issues.

And it is a massive railroad besides.

I cannnot forgive and adventures where (and I'll use spoilers just in case :

if you find the mcguffin too early, either through good play or a bit of luck... It will LITERALLY erase your memory of finding it and set you back several steps!

That's not fun or clever, it's terrible adventure design. And it's far from the only issue.

 

[Mort]

Yeah. There's your problem. If you run most modules straight without adjusting them at all they're going to suck. The designers can't anticipate exactly what your group composition or playstyle is going to be. The version we ran through was basically a faction gang war and series of heists. Think Oceans 11 by way of Narcos. The same skeleton presented in the module, but our DM spent a lot of time buffing the adventure and he did not run it straight out of the book. But this isn't a thread about that. So...

The main purpose of a published adventure is to make it easier for a busy DM to run for his group - so he doesn't have to design everything himself. It will still require work to get it running and adapt to the group, but should not be nearly as much as starting from scrach.

A secondary purpose is to have great ideas, monsters, maps, encounters, magic items etc. the DM can port into his own game even if he's not using the module itself.

IMO, Dragon Heist easily succeeds at the latter (Some interesting stuff in there) while completely failing at the former.

Interestingly, the best part of Dragon Heist (IMO of course) are the villain lairs. They're fun well designed mini dungeons. the silly thing is... A group running through the actual adventure will, almost certainly, not encounter them - they're not meant too! And if they do encounter them, it's a near certain TPK for the level they will be (unless the group gets VERY lucky or really moves in and out fast). But as something to mine for other adventures - they're great!

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Since this seems to have become a fight about Dragon Heist somehow, I'll just say I've been a player (and subsequently read it) and that my group really enjoyed that module. We went way off book, but I think the nature of dedicated urban campaigns is going way off book (the average player just has an easier time thinking of unexpected things to try in an urban setting than out in the wilderness or whatever). I think it was our DM's first time (definitely his first in 5e), and I don't think he used anyone's "remix" I think he just adapted heavily to whatever we wanted to do in a big fantasy city. I'd recommend the module, but not to the OP here for their current needs because it is a campaign for starting characters of the levels they already did, and while that is not an insurmountable problem, virtually any other published module would have more content that doesn't require adjustment.

Reading over it my chief objection to the design is having four possible paths but not really giving the players agency in which path to choose. I think in some early stage in design they came up with the multiple paths gimmick with the idea that all four villains were vying to get the treasure and PCs would have to choose sides or play them off each other or something, but then the actual plot(s) they came up with didn't support this and instead just involves the DM picking which of the four paths they want to send players down.

 

[Burnside]

Yeah. There's your problem. If you run most modules straight without adjusting them at all they're going to suck. The designers can't anticipate exactly what your group composition or playstyle is going to be. The version we ran through was basically a faction gang war and series of heists. Think Oceans 11 by way of Narcos. The same skeleton presented in the module, but our DM spent a lot of time buffing the adventure and he did not run it straight out of the book. But this isn't a thread about that. So...

The problems with Dragon Heist go WAY beyond the usual level of assumed DM customization and adapting.

OP is a novice DM looking to run their second adventure ever. Waterdeep: Dragon Heist needs an extensive re-working by a skilled DM to make it playable. There are other, better 5E adventures that offer a much less frustrating experience for a novice DM.

 

[Mort]

To get away from the pitched Dragon Heist battle and actually focus on the OPs question:

I'd recommend taking a look at the tier 2 (5-9th level) adventures league adventures from the various seasons. All are available on the DMs guild, very reasonably priced. And because there are lots of seasons available there are lots of good options from nautical theme to horror themed to survival themed.

For example, I enjoyed the nautical themed Moonshae series as a player (one of the few times I got to play vs. DM!)

 

[Lyxen]

Tomb of Annihilation has a built-in search-and-map capability, if your players like doing that. If the deathtrap tomb turns you off (it did for me), how about tracking down a legend about an abandoned dwarven mine full of ore and rare-metal ingots - which forgot to mention the resident dragon to chase off / beat?

Just a point, the tomb is not that much of a deathtrap. It is actually very cleverly built, with the "behind the scenes" look that allows clever players to do much more than just survive. Add this to the unlikely allies that you can find there and which offer great roleplay, I think it's much better than Tomb of Horrors.

 

[Mort]

Just a point, the tomb is not that much of a deathtrap. It is actually very cleverly built, with the "behind the scenes" look that allows clever players to do much more than just survive. Add this to the unlikely allies that you can find there and which offer great roleplay, I think it's much better than Tomb of Horrors.

All true. BUT to a group unused to difficult combats and/or a group expecting a level appropriate fair fight? That last encounter is a doozy!

That's not necessarily a strike against it - but the DM needs to know it going in.