Where's the line? (Spin-off from Vulgarity in Fantasy thread)

[Mouseferatu]

I didn't want to alter the course of that thread, but I'm wondering...

For those of you who object to (real) vulgarity in your fantasy literature--either because you simply dislike profanity or because you don't feel it fits--where do you draw the line?

Is it okay to use more "tame" curses (i.e. "Damn!" or "Crap!"), but not more severe ones (i.e. "F---!" or "S---!")?

Is it okay if it's a modern fantasy, but not one set in the past or a different world?

Is it okay if it only happens once or twice in a book, but not if it's regular?

Is it okay if it's strictly the province of one or two characters who are particularly more crass/low-brow than the others, but not if everyone does it?

I'm really curious, here.

 

[Mouseferatu]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I'll admit that part of my curiosity comes from the fact that most of my own novels, published, sold, or otherwise, incluse some amount of profanity. Most of them just have the "lesser" profanity, with maybe one or two instances of something harsher, though. (I do have one unpublished novel, in which the main characters are what, in D&D, would be thought of as goblinoids and savage humanoids, which has more cursing than Andrew Dice Clay stubbing his toe on a dark night, but I'm that's an exception. )

 

[RangerWickett]

The characters in most fiction I write have American sensibilities, and use American language. Side characters from other cultures might be more British, or more French, or Arabic or Vietnamese or whatever. Generally I prefer to focus on unexceptional people who do exceptional things as demanded by the circumstances they find themselves in. As normal people, they sometimes swear, and when they do, because I think about things the way an American does, my baseline is to have them swear like an American would.

Even though the setting is fantastical, the people in it have the same sorts of personalities and mannerisms that real world people do. I view it as a stylistic choice, an attempt to emphasize that these folks aren't special -- they go through the same sort of difficult s*** we all do, just their world is a little more exciting to read about.

I dunno. Maybe I oughta write modern pulp adventure instead of fantasy pulp adventure, if the audience will have a problem with me wanting to portray characters as being "just like you and me, but with a sword."

 

[Agamon]

Not really a vulgar person, myself, but I gotta say, GRRM's use of vulgarities in A Song of Ice and Fire seems very natural and fitting. I don't think Tyrion would be half as likable without his use of colorful language.

 

[Klaus]

I think the language should match the story. If the story has no "adult" (read: innapropriate for minors) themes (as is the general "good versus evil" story), then "adult" words become jarring. If the story, otoh, features sex, cruelty, graphic violence, etc (like ASoI&F), then profanity becomes another tool to conveying the tone.

 

[Pants]

I think the language should match the story. If the story has no "adult" (read: innapropriate for minors) themes (as is the general "good versus evil" story), then "adult" words become jarring. If the story, otoh, features sex, cruelty, graphic violence, etc (like ASoI&F), then profanity becomes another tool to conveying the tone.

Not really a vulgar person, myself, but I gotta say, GRRM's use of vulgarities in A Song of Ice and Fire seems very natural and fitting. I don't think Tyrion would be half as likable without his use of colorful language.

QFTMF Truth.

I've read plenty of vulgar and not-so-vulgar fantasy. It all depends on the characters and how the author utilizes it.

 

[Morrus]

It's not a line of extremity, Ari. I can't imagine a situation where I'd feel a minor word fitted, but a major one didn't. Either they both do or they both don't.

And, like I've said, it's not the words, it's the speech patterns of their use, and the context of the world they're in.

 

[Morrus]

The characters in most fiction I write have American sensibilities, and use American language. Side characters from other cultures might be more British, or more French, or Arabic or Vietnamese or whatever. Generally I prefer to focus on unexceptional people who do exceptional things as demanded by the circumstances they find themselves in. As normal people, they sometimes swear, and when they do, because I think about things the way an American does, my baseline is to have them swear like an American would.

Even though the setting is fantastical, the people in it have the same sorts of personalities and mannerisms that real world people do. I view it as a stylistic choice, an attempt to emphasize that these folks aren't special -- they go through the same sort of difficult s*** we all do, just their world is a little more exciting to read about.

I dunno. Maybe I oughta write modern pulp adventure instead of fantasy pulp adventure, if the audience will have a problem with me wanting to portray characters as being "just like you and me, but with a sword."

That gives me horrific visions of the Dungeons & Dragons cartoon in novel form - with added swear words because they're "grown-ups".

 

[Mouseferatu]

And, like I've said, it's not the words, it's the speech patterns of their use, and the context of the world they're in.

See, that I can get.

I, personally, don't have a preferred method of speech. I'm fine with fantasy dialogue that sounds (relatively) formal and old-fashioned, as long as it doesn't cross the line into "thee" and "thou" and "foresooth." But I'm also okay with fantasy novels where the people speak exactly as we do today (minus blatantly modern slang). It all depends on the tone/feel of the novel.

In my own case, for instance, with the dialogue in Black Crusade (the upcoming Ravenloft novel), I made a concerted effort to sound more formal and historically appropriate, even for those characters who aren't native to historical Earth. OTOH, my favorite of all the novels I've written but not yet sold, called Shades of Grey, has characters speaking very much like modern folk. It just fit the tone and personality better.

But I can certainly see where some people would prefer one over the other.

 

[Mallus]

I draw the line at what I think is bad writing. While that's got a lot to do with the language used, it's got nothing to do with profanity.

There are too many good books full of bad words for me to deny myself the pleasure of reading them.