Which 16 array would you recomend

[Artoomis]

I strongly prefer (and recommend!) rolling for stats; otherwise, nobody ever has a low stat.

Whether this is good or bad is a matter of taste, but I'll tell ya, I vastly prefer the chaos of rolling. I hate cherry picking stats.

But it's a matter of playstyle preference.

I've never liked random rolling for the wild variations amongst players that it introduces. One set of random roles should not determine the path of an entire PC career.

4e is set up primarily for point-buy, not for rolling, tnough rolling is still allowed, of course.

 

[Elric]

Leaving the door open for races who don't get a +2 to their primary stat, to use an 18/14/11 or 18/13/13 array would probably be more interesting. So your rules would be: If playing a race that gets +2 to a primary stat, use one of the 16-stat arrays. Otherwise you may also choose one of the 18-stat arrays. This ensures no one will have a 20 starting array, which I'm guessing is what you're trying to avoid.

If this is the main concern, how about: After racial modifiers, you can't have any attributes above 18.

 

[Nifft]

HOWEVER, I've found that when doing point buy and trying to tweak a class I'll often end up going with: 16, 14, 14, 13, 10, 8. I find that this allows to balance out the different defenses, as well as offering more opportunities for meeting feat pre-reqs, without overpowering the build.

This array would also be my recommended default. It fits a very wide variety of characters -- not all, but really quite a lot of them.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rothe_]

I'd just allow the use of the standard point buy, and that includes all the arrays in the PHB. Why limit the stats? Just advice everyone to have a minimum of 16 in the main stat. You'll get some with 20's and some with 18, perhaps one with 16 in the main stat, but so what? Allow them to adjust the stats later (as long as prereqs still hold) if they feel like they made a mistake.

Artificially constraining a system that already works will not give you any added value in my opinion.

 

[eamon]

I'd just allow the use of the standard point buy, and that includes all the arrays in the PHB. Why limit the stats? Just advice everyone to have a minimum of 16 in the main stat. You'll get some with 20's and some with 18, perhaps one with 16 in the main stat, but so what? Allow them to adjust the stats later (as long as prereqs still hold) if they feel like they made a mistake.

This. For players that don't like optimizing, I recommend as high as possible primary/secondary stats, for those that do; somewhat lower. It may seem like you're reducing spread when you limit point buy like that, but in 4e the primary stat matters most, and most crucially it's quite tricky to get much value out of tertiary or lower stats. In practice, that means those that spend time to tweak it out get an advantage from those lower stats, whilst those that don't might as well just have a high primary/secondary.

In any case, the real risk when allowing point buy of die-rolled characters isn't that strong characters get much too strong - that's very hard to achieve - it's that weak characters get gimped by choosing or rolling terrible primary/secondary stats - and then not picking a race which raises them, say.

All in all, the game's pretty balanced - if you impress upon them the importance of having actually decent primary/secondary stats, there's not much that can go wrong. And even if something does, is that such a problem? It's part of the learning experience; let em rebuild or change character.

 

[Jhaelen]

IMO, rolling is an especially horrible fit for 4E.

From what you're describing, I'd go for the standard 16, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10.

Another vote for the standard array! Imho, it's the best for players new to 4e.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think this whole idea is flawed.

First it rests on the premise that only optimizers boost stats above 16. This is simply not true. In fact smart optimizers are exactly the people that often pick a 16 primary. Secondly it rests on theory that 18 is better than 16. This also is not true. Some class/race combinations are better with a 16, some with an 18, and some with a 20. All restricting people to a 16 does is make it impossible to get a 20 post-racial, which just removes or reduces the effectiveness of a few specific builds.

The MAJOR effect of this rule will be to dramatically narrow the good choices of race/class. If I have to take a 16 and want to play a class that works well with an 18 and doesn't have a racial bonus in the prime req I am now basically disallowed from that class. Since optimizers are not usually the people that build these off choices it won't do anything to deter them.

Overall the result of using this rule will not be to even out characters. They are already very even in 4e. It will just make less interesting choices exist. I think you'll get a lot more mileage out of simply writing up a quick 2-3 paragraph note on things that are bad ideas in 4e, like having a primary below 16 and pointing out that generally an 18 is a good thing and that a 20 usually hurts more than it helps. I think that'll go a lot further than basically arbitrary restrictions towards insuring that most PCs are around the middle of their power range, at least with respect to stats.

So much more goes into building a highly effective character than stat choices however that really even the best choices made by all players will have only limited effect. Choosing good synergistic powers, feats, etc and making sure the party knows how to use them all well together in combination is far more important than a point or two of stat allocation.

 

[Garmorn]

I think this whole idea is flawed.

First it rests on the premise that only optimizers boost stats above 16. This is simply not true. In fact smart optimizers are exactly the people that often pick a 16 primary. Secondly it rests on theory that 18 is better than 16. This also is not true. Some class/race combinations are better with a 16, some with an 18, and some with a 20. All restricting people to a 16 does is make it impossible to get a 20 post-racial, which just removes or reduces the effectiveness of a few specific builds.

The MAJOR effect of this rule will be to dramatically narrow the good choices of race/class. If I have to take a 16 and want to play a class that works well with an 18 and doesn't have a racial bonus in the prime req I am now basically disallowed from that class. Since optimizers are not usually the people that build these off choices it won't do anything to deter them.

Overall the result of using this rule will not be to even out characters. They are already very even in 4e. It will just make less interesting choices exist. I think you'll get a lot more mileage out of simply writing up a quick 2-3 paragraph note on things that are bad ideas in 4e, like having a primary below 16 and pointing out that generally an 18 is a good thing and that a 20 usually hurts more than it helps. I think that'll go a lot further than basically arbitrary restrictions towards insuring that most PCs are around the middle of their power range, at least with respect to stats.

So much more goes into building a highly effective character than stat choices however that really even the best choices made by all players will have only limited effect. Choosing good synergistic powers, feats, etc and making sure the party knows how to use them all well together in combination is far more important than a point or two of stat allocation.

I want to thank every one for their advice. As I stated in the first paragraph part of it was to help me as the DM to cope.

I no experenice with this edition and don't have the DMG yet. This has given me a lot of insight. I am still in the 1 to 3 ed where 16+ meant very powerful characters and 20's where unheard of.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I think you'll do OK. 4e is pretty DM friendly. You CAN have everyone go with the standard array, I just don't think it will make much difference.

 

[Garmorn]

I'd just allow the use of the standard point buy, and that includes all the arrays in the PHB. Why limit the stats? Just advice everyone to have a minimum of 16 in the main stat. You'll get some with 20's and some with 18, perhaps one with 16 in the main stat, but so what? Allow them to adjust the stats later (as long as prereqs still hold) if they feel like they made a mistake.

Artificially constraining a system that already works will not give you any added value in my opinion.

After reading all of this and a couple of other treads I am just going to use the above approach.

It will some getting use wanting a party where everyone as an 18 or 20. ~30 years of gaming and must break out of high stats are game breaker mod.