D&D 3.x Which 3.0 books are you using in 3.5 without problems?

[Li Shenron]

We may start gaming with me as DM and I was browsing throught my books for ideas on the setting and what to include as standard options for players (as always, this means classes, feats, spells...). I also borrowed a few FR books since the setting will probably be incorporating many themes together with the homebrew ideas.

The point is that I want this time to be DMing with 3.5 rules, or at least with what is available through the SRD. At the same time I want to still use material from my old 3.0 books. I already have some problems.

First thing I have started doing is to write down all the feats from those books (so far the 5 classbooks, FRCS, Magic of Faerun and Faith & Pantheons) into a single document to print out for the players, so that they have a broader choice. I am cutting out feats which have been rewritten (and I use the 3.5 version) or that do nothing within 3.5 rules, and that's ok since I have expected.

But then there are also another type of feats which don't work well anymore: the ones which used to be scaled with core feats. Some examples:

a) feats which used to give bonuses to skills - were balanced with Skill Focus +2, now +3

b) feats which used to give bonuses to spell DC - were balanced with Spell Focus +2, now +1

There are so many 3.0 feats of type a) that if used in 3.5 will be underpowered, and viceversa all the ones of type b) will be overpowered.

I am especially having problems with the FR books, so much that I was tempted to simply ban the whole feats chapters altogether. FR is a powerful setting, but all the DC boost are ridiculous compared to 3.5. Would it be better to instead drop the 3.5 Spell Focus completely, since no one is going to take it compared with the old feats?

 

[Pax]

First off, get a copy of CW. That updates a lot of material form several sources, not just S&F.

Increase the bonusses of Type A feats by 50%, and cut the bonusses of Type B feats by 50%, if you like.

Generally, nothing has given us much TROUBLE (other than some OA material) from 3.0, but in the Exodus, we've discovered that a lot of it either needs to be glossed over, or, slightly adapted for use in 3.5 rules.

 

[Li Shenron]

First off, get a copy of CW.

No. I spent a lot of money for the books I own and I still want to use them. I won't buy a replacement book for a few feats.

However, your guidelines about handling those feats seems to be the best way. It should scale quite well with the skill-enhancing feats although I am a bit concerned that it may be too much with the feats like Combat Casting which give a +4 bonus to a skill but only one specific use of it; maybe +6 is too much... and after all Combat Casting stayed at +4 even after update of Skill Focus.

I am more skeptic about the DC-enhancing feats. Ok for all those feats that gave +2 to a subset of spell, just like Spell Focus but instead on all Fire spells or Evil spells and so on. Less ok with feats that gave +1 on a broader category... should I now restrict the category? Other feats gave +1 DC on a subset and something else, and now probably I should take away the +1 and keep only the "something else".

 

[diaglo]

did you download the conversion manuals from the WotC site?

or find the old rumor thread just before the 3.11ed for Workgroups release by Olgar Shiverstone.

 

[Li Shenron]

did you download the conversion manuals from the WotC site?

I did but it covers only Deities & Demigods, Epic Level Handbook, Monster Manual II and Fiend Folio IIRC. The latter two are really not much important, I think I can use either 3.0 or 3.5 versions of the monsters in either core set of rules. The first two won't play a part in the campaign.

...maybe there were other conversion manuals? I'll try to find out...

 

[Ferox4]

We also tried to do this when 3.5 came out, but I must admit that it became a pain in the ass very quickly. There are a lot of changes from 3.0 to 3.5. Feats, spells, combat rules, and many other small things that add up to a significant amount of change in the "rules."

After a few months I got tired of having all this extraneous paper lying around the table; rifling through printouts and the like. We bit the bullet and bought the 3.5 core books. Yes, it is an investment, but it's nice to have a consolidated set of books once more.

This is not to say that it can't be done, but at the very least have your players (and yourself) get 3.5 PHBs. And, for what it's worth, the 3.5 MM is much better than the 3.0.

 

[Li Shenron]

We also tried to do this when 3.5 came out, but I must admit that it became a pain in the ass very quickly. There are a lot of changes from 3.0 to 3.5. Feats, spells, combat rules, and many other small things that add up to a significant amount of change in the "rules."

After a few months I got tired of having all this extraneous paper lying around the table; rifling through printouts and the like. We bit the bullet and bought the 3.5 core books. Yes, it is an investment, but it's nice to have a consolidated set of books once more.

This is not to say that it can't be done, but at the very least have your players (and yourself) get 3.5 PHBs. And, for what it's worth, the 3.5 MM is much better than the 3.0.

I am fine with the changes from 3.0 to 3.5. I am not fine with the fact that I cannot use my 3.0 books with 3.5 core rules without a lot of work.

But anyway it shouldn't be that much trouble with everything... at least I think that the 3.0 spells, monsters and prestige classes from non-core books still work quite well in 3.5.

- Spells are probably 99% compatible.

- Monsters just need to update DR, but it doesn't matter if the 3.0 creatures don't follow the precise rules on monster creation/advancement, at most they'll have a couple of less/more skills and feat but there's no need to update them really. I can use a monster from a 3.0 book at no change if I want.

- Prestige Classes are more trouble but mostly only on requirements that should be rewritten to fit 3.5. Some skills don't exist anymore or are easier to get, etc... Basically I will need to check if the minimum level to qualify is the same and if more or less the "cost" to qualify match. Fortunately, I won't probably really need to update a PrCl until a player tells me that he wants to take it; it will be enough for me to spend a few seconds on each PrCl before producing the "approved" list to the group.

Feats seem to me the most troublesome at the moment, also because it really helps the players to know beforehand which feats they can take. The trend seems to be that the feats which are not updated in 3.5 should simply be thrown in the garbage.

BTW: the whole thing doesn't matter with buying the 3.5 corebooks! My point is about using the 3.0 non-core material without having to buy the whole thing again. Rather than doing that, I'd just keep playing 3.0 until July 2005...

 

[ruleslawyer]

But then there are also another type of feats which don't work well anymore: the ones which used to be scaled with core feats. Some examples:

a) feats which used to give bonuses to skills - were balanced with Skill Focus +2, now +3

Actually, all of the "+2 to two skills" feats have been made core in 3.5, so they should be fine to run as is. Of course, they're not really worth being regional feats any more, so maybe an additional bennie is required.

b) feats which used to give bonuses to spell DC - were balanced with Spell Focus +2, now +1

Um, how many of these are there? The only ones that I know of are Spellcasting Prodigy (which will be errata'd in the upcoming Player's Guide to Faerun to povide only the bonus spell(s), not the DC boost) and the Figment Master feat from Races of Faerun, which already is 3.5 compliant.

I am especially having problems with the FR books, so much that I was tempted to simply ban the whole feats chapters altogether. FR is a powerful setting, but all the DC boost are ridiculous compared to 3.5. Would it be better to instead drop the 3.5 Spell Focus completely, since no one is going to take it compared with the old feats?

Again, which DC boosts are you talking about? Keep in mind that Spell Power has been definitively changed in 3.5: It now confers +1 caster level, and no DC boost.

Feel free to list specific examples; I run a 3.5 FR campaign myself, so I'd be happy to lend suggestions.

 

[Voadam]

Be aware that the persistent spell feat in FRCS went up to 4 spell levels in Tome and Blood (a pre-3.5 update) we've been using that and it has been fun for my eldritch knight character.

Spells will be a little work to convert as some schools have changed, all teleports are now conjuration, all conjurations now bypass SR so they may need to be toned down, etc. Thunderlance rocks for an EK (at least I've had fun with it.)

How many spell DC feats are there? Greater spell focus is now core so that leaves spell prodigy, the shadow magic thing, and the bloodline of fire one. What else is there? Three feats should not be that big a deal.

 

[Li Shenron]

I will try to write down a list of those feats tonight when I go back at home... I may remember wrong that they were from FR, they could have been from EA.

Also I should not have referred to feats only, in fact the amount becomes quite larger when you consider the PrCl's boosts to DC as well, which are easier to handle.