Ooh, like when the Cardigans recorded Iron Man by Black Sabbath?
Which edition change changed the game the most?
- Thread starter Aberzanzorax
- Start date
Ooh, like when the Cardigans recorded Iron Man by Black Sabbath?
I'd have to say AD&D (1E). Characters were suddenly modular entities to design, grow and customize mechanically and story-wise instead of a small variety of basic typecasts.
IOW, Characters were no longer "I want to cast spells and use bows/swords so I'll play an Elf" but brought a true separation of race and class. You could still play the old-fashioned "Elf" by being a Fighter/Magic User but you "started" as wanting to play an Elf as a character race, not class, and could choose your class from there. You could play the same class, but could be a Gnome also .
It also made demi-humans a lot more common because Humans didn't "own" versatility (although with level limits in higher level campaigns they still were to an extent until Unearthed Arcana at least gave them an unlimited option, even if the that option was Thief.).
IOW, Characters were no longer "I want to cast spells and use bows/swords so I'll play an Elf" but brought a true separation of race and class. You could still play the old-fashioned "Elf" by being a Fighter/Magic User but you "started" as wanting to play an Elf as a character race, not class, and could choose your class from there. You could play the same class, but could be a Gnome also .
It also made demi-humans a lot more common because Humans didn't "own" versatility (although with level limits in higher level campaigns they still were to an extent until Unearthed Arcana at least gave them an unlimited option, even if the that option was Thief.).
Ed_Laprade
Adventurer
I voted 4e because it feels like a bigger change. Otherwise I doubt that I could have decided between it and 3e.
(And, yeah, I'd have voted OD&D if it had been available. )
(And, yeah, I'd have voted OD&D if it had been available. )
delericho
Legend
I thought race and class were separate right back in OD&D? It was BD&D which had race-as-class, and that came later.
Edit: No, my mistake. I've just checked my copy of OD&D (not the 1974 version), and the situation's not as clear as that. Dwarves and Halflings progress as Fighting Men; Elves as some sort of Fighting Man/Wizard multiclass.
All races could reach any level in Thief even in the 1st Edition PHB.
Edit 2: This isn't quite true, either. Half-orcs are limited to level 8 as Thieves, but can reach any level as Assassins.
(I read that book for the first time last month. It was a fascinating read.)
This is a tough one.
3e introduced, and then became defined by, the build/shop paradigm which combine to form the "HEROization of D&D"/"Tom Clancy's Lord of the Rings" but 4e brought in battle algebra (3W+CHA!), the (mostly) uniform powers framework and reconfigured/re-prioritized the whole spell casting system.
4e is more different, but also more class-based. 3e is more similar to its predecessors, but less class-based.
3e by a hair... but don't quote me on that.
3e introduced, and then became defined by, the build/shop paradigm which combine to form the "HEROization of D&D"/"Tom Clancy's Lord of the Rings" but 4e brought in battle algebra (3W+CHA!), the (mostly) uniform powers framework and reconfigured/re-prioritized the whole spell casting system.
4e is more different, but also more class-based. 3e is more similar to its predecessors, but less class-based.
3e by a hair... but don't quote me on that.
Bingo.
The other big change this introduced was that your experience came far more often from killing monsters rather then avoiding them.
D&D didn't become a "combat" game with 4e - it's been that way since 2e.
TerraDave
5ever, or until 2024
As others have pointed out, the nature of the changes have been different from edition to edition. But each new edition is grounded in the evolution of the previous.
OD&D to AD&D (and B/X D&D): A period of heavy experimentation followed by a sudden crystallization and desire to stabilize the rules set. This becomes the pattern for all edition changes to follow, but the reversal is particularly stark, and rules changes slow down to a crawl for many years.
AD&D 1 to AD&D2: Desire to broaden the scope of the game to incorporate story, wider themes, and more diverse worlds. Mechanics take a back seat, and a trickle of novels, settings, etc starting with Dragonlance in the late 1E period leads to the 2E flood.
AD&D 2.5: Mechanics do not rest entirely, and after years of near stats there is a wave of mechanical experimentation, in part driven by mechanics in other games, to allow for more detailed skills, more player options, more flexible magic, more tactical combat…
AD&D 2 to D&D 3: The desire is to get back to what made the game so popular in the first place, while ensuring its appeal to a wide audience. A baroque mass of mechanics dating back 25 years is cleaned up, story is given less emphasis, but many campaign settings still receive support, and effort is made to keep a surprising number of details consistent with past editions.
D&D 3.5: Balancing and clarifying options, part of the 3E set of revisions, takes top priority. This is followed by the tweaks to the core rules with increasingly experimental, even radical, rules options in supplements.
D&D 3 to D&D 4: Seeing D&D squeezed between WoW and Settlers of Cataan, improving the game play experience takes a higher priority then since the very early days of the game. The 3E mechanical core is retained, as are familiar options, but otherwise the revision is extensive and deep, to keep the game smoother and more DM friendly while retaining a Titanic load of player options.
D&D 4Essentials: Perhaps the earliest “dial back” after a new edition since Modlvay Basic, this seeks to further push ease of play, while making the game, at least superficially, more similar to past editions, in part out of a semi-belated recognition of a potentially large but also aging fan base.
OD&D to AD&D (and B/X D&D): A period of heavy experimentation followed by a sudden crystallization and desire to stabilize the rules set. This becomes the pattern for all edition changes to follow, but the reversal is particularly stark, and rules changes slow down to a crawl for many years.
AD&D 1 to AD&D2: Desire to broaden the scope of the game to incorporate story, wider themes, and more diverse worlds. Mechanics take a back seat, and a trickle of novels, settings, etc starting with Dragonlance in the late 1E period leads to the 2E flood.
AD&D 2.5: Mechanics do not rest entirely, and after years of near stats there is a wave of mechanical experimentation, in part driven by mechanics in other games, to allow for more detailed skills, more player options, more flexible magic, more tactical combat…
AD&D 2 to D&D 3: The desire is to get back to what made the game so popular in the first place, while ensuring its appeal to a wide audience. A baroque mass of mechanics dating back 25 years is cleaned up, story is given less emphasis, but many campaign settings still receive support, and effort is made to keep a surprising number of details consistent with past editions.
D&D 3.5: Balancing and clarifying options, part of the 3E set of revisions, takes top priority. This is followed by the tweaks to the core rules with increasingly experimental, even radical, rules options in supplements.
D&D 3 to D&D 4: Seeing D&D squeezed between WoW and Settlers of Cataan, improving the game play experience takes a higher priority then since the very early days of the game. The 3E mechanical core is retained, as are familiar options, but otherwise the revision is extensive and deep, to keep the game smoother and more DM friendly while retaining a Titanic load of player options.
D&D 4Essentials: Perhaps the earliest “dial back” after a new edition since Modlvay Basic, this seeks to further push ease of play, while making the game, at least superficially, more similar to past editions, in part out of a semi-belated recognition of a potentially large but also aging fan base.
Take a tenth level elf.
Wait.
Ok, take a tenth level human fighter/thief/druid/bard.
Wait.
Ok, take a multiclassed elven fighter/mage.
Wait.
Ok, take a half-dragon fighter/thief/woodlands sniper/eye of gromash/exotic weapon master.
Wait.
The 3e multiclassing that only existed in 3e? How do you not see the problem in this?
Dice4Hire
First Post
I voted 3E.
To me, 2E was a mess of a system, with lots of odd rules, and classes that brought their own rulesets into the game. Add in kits, and changes from the beginning to end of 2E, and you could hardly play a game of 2E without a half-hour discussion of house rules.
With 3E, you had a solid rules set, that, though expanded upon endlessly, worked quite well as an SRD only game. And a whole lot of people played it that way. The skills were a godsend, spells were somewhat cleaned up, especially the casters themselves, feats were nice, and characters became both fluff and crunch customizable, something that even in 2E was hard to do crunch wise.
Ti me 4E look different, but it is really very similar to 3E with the exception of spells. I know why WOTC did it, and maybe they went a bit far, but allowing people to play fighters again in high level games was worth it.
To me, 2E was a mess of a system, with lots of odd rules, and classes that brought their own rulesets into the game. Add in kits, and changes from the beginning to end of 2E, and you could hardly play a game of 2E without a half-hour discussion of house rules.
With 3E, you had a solid rules set, that, though expanded upon endlessly, worked quite well as an SRD only game. And a whole lot of people played it that way. The skills were a godsend, spells were somewhat cleaned up, especially the casters themselves, feats were nice, and characters became both fluff and crunch customizable, something that even in 2E was hard to do crunch wise.
Ti me 4E look different, but it is really very similar to 3E with the exception of spells. I know why WOTC did it, and maybe they went a bit far, but allowing people to play fighters again in high level games was worth it.
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