Which element could D&D stand to lose more?

[Umbran]

Why should gamers celebrate D&D in a particular form being carried on a major news outlet, particularly if said gamers honestly think it sucks and is dragging down the brand?

Because there's no such thing as bad publicity, and publicity for the current edition still gets the name "Dungeons and Dragons" out, and that helps players of all editions, really.

You are in a niche hobby. Take the free publicity where you can get it.

Where does this idea that we shouldn't criticize the game come from?

There's a major difference between offering critique of the game, and dragging down publicity that could have been used constructively, and making ourselves look like nerdy, angry jerks in the process.

 

[Raven Crowking]

There's a major difference between offering critique of the game, and dragging down publicity that could have been used constructively, and making ourselves look like nerdy, angry jerks in the process.

There's no such thing as bad publicity. Or so I have been told. Take the free publicity where you can get it.

 

[Umbran]

There's no such thing as bad publicity. Or so I have been told. Take the free publicity where you can get it.

Seemingly clever, but also seems to miss the point.

Note how I didn't call the arguing bad publicity, because it wasn't. It was a wasted opportunity. Ultimately, that ugliness wasn't harmful - but it could have been so much more constructive. As we've seen time and again, here and elsewhere - tearing someone else down is easy, but not generally as useful as building up yourself.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Seemingly clever, but also seems to miss the point.

Note how I didn't call the arguing bad publicity, because it wasn't. It was a wasted opportunity. Ultimately, that ugliness wasn't harmful - but it could have been so much more constructive. As we've seen time and again, here and elsewhere - tearing someone else down is easy, but not generally as useful as building up yourself.

Nah.

Either the complaining gamers are justified in their complaints, because they believe that the edition was a wasted opportunity that could have been so much more constructive.....and we are justified in our comments about their comments.....OR they are not. In which case, we are not, either.

"Our complaints about their complaints are more rational/better than their complaints about X that we like" is a non-starter. And should be obviously so.

And it should be obvious by now that there is a contingent of folks who believe (regardless of what you or I, or all of EN World, might believe) that 4e dilutes the meaning of the term "D&D".....effectively that 4e "tears down the meaning of Dungeons & Dragons" regardless of whether or not it builds up another game -- good as it may be -- that would be better identified under another name.

The point is, your commentary only makes sense if your POV is somehow "right" and the other is somehow "wrong". It is, AFAICT, effectively no different than the complaints it is levelled against. Seemingly clever, but also seems to miss the point.

EDIT: And, to stave off the obvious response: Yes, WotC owns the brand identity, and has the right to do whatever they wish with it. However, WotC's rights to that brand identity do not trump individual rights to free speech. The right to complain about what is done with brand identity is a more fundamental right than is the right to brand identity. IMHO, anyway. Free speech trumps corporate interests, every time.


RC


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[Umbran]

Either the complaining gamers are justified in their complaints...

I didn't say their complaints were unjustified, RC. I merely suggest that they were poorly timed, and in an inappropriate context, such that they didn't do themselves any favors.

There's a time and place for critique - and "whenever I darned well please" is perhaps not in your own best interests.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Maybe so, Umbran.....But surely the person making the complaint gets to decide when and where they feel that complaint is justified? What context is appropriate? What is the right timing? And surely the person making the complaint knows better than you or I what their goals were, and is in a better position to know whether or not they did themselves any favours.

That you or I may not like the results is besides the point.




RC

 

[Diamond Cross]

BAN ELVES!

I'm incredibly sick of Drizzt wannabes.

Keep Pieonics.

 

[Desdichado]

EDIT: And, to stave off the obvious response: Yes, WotC owns the brand identity, and has the right to do whatever they wish with it. However, WotC's rights to that brand identity do not trump individual rights to free speech. The right to complain about what is done with brand identity is a more fundamental right than is the right to brand identity. IMHO, anyway. Free speech trumps corporate interests, every time.

Rights? Huh? Was some government entity trying to surpress these comments?

This has nothing to do with free speech.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Rights? Huh? Was some government entity trying to surpress these comments?

This has nothing to do with free speech.

I could just foresee an obvious rejoiner: WotC has the right to change the brand identity.

This is true, but irrelevant. The reason that it is irrelevant is because more than WotC's rights are involved.

People have a right to complain. You have a right to complain about their complaining. Your complaints about their complaining are no better than their complaining. Thinking they are is not so horribly different than the folks complaining thinking that their vision of the game is better than yours.

IMHO. YMMV.


RC

 

[Desdichado]

No, no rejoiner here. I just don't see how free speech is relevant. We're not talking about being repressed by the government, we're talking about the mores and conventions of civilized social interaction.