Which level cap do you prefer?

[Troll Wizard]

Here's the options:

A 6th level cap, with all the main classes available

or

A 10th level cap, without Cleric, Sorcerer, Wizard, or Druid available. Bard and Warlock would be available as the main casters.

I vote 6th, but I am happy to run 1 - 8, but 9th and above my interest as a DM plummets and I will not run a epic-level game.
My players tell me that I run a gritty down-to-earth type game, with a good mix of richly detailed melee battles and plenty of opportunities for role-playing. I prefer that “magic” within my campaign be “magical” i.e. special. So while I do have the occasional “+1” item, it does bother me and I generally strive to provide magical items that are a bit richer in detail, but not powerful in rule-mechanics.

I have played up to level 24th with my primary group, but even as a player I find that the games loses much of its charm about 12th level. I stick around because of a very good DM who can challenge even epic players. But the IMO the sheer absurdity of the PC's power bothers me to know end. Probably why I absolutely loath superhero games. I am perfectly happy with the baseline of fantasy, farmer peasant hero, suffering much hardship to reach a heroic level of power (more Persus than Hercules), and hopefully succeeding in the end to vanquish the BBEG. Through it all there is always a chance of failure (this makes success that much sweeter) and knowing the consequences for such failure for my characters’ family and friends.

 

[el-remmen]

I think I'd choose 6th as the cap.

I think 4th thru 6th are the most fun levels anyway.

 

[Celebrim]

Celebrim, you're quite right that it's spells (the ones on your list and several others) that spoil mid-level play for me. Things like detect lies, while not technically mid-level, don't usually get bought until the characters are mid level, which is why I think of them that way.

So change the spells.

Make detect evil require a 'scry' check (remember that underused 3.0 skill) DC equal to say 30 - minus the strength of the alignment, and which can be opposed by bluff if the target is aware of the survellance. Give it a chance of fumbling, or just do away with its ability to function with humanoids altogether.

Make detect lies give a +10 bonus to sense motive rather than a straight up absolute ability.

Make 'Fly' a 4th level spell, and add a third level spell like 'Glide' or something. Bump the teleports up a level, and if necessary put and put a range limit on them based on level of ability. The levels of spells are pretty arbitrary anyway, especially since the mechanics changed so much between 1st and 3rd edition. We saw alot of attempts (some good some really poorly thought out) to bring some balance to the spell lists in 3.5, and we will see alot more whenever they get to 4th.

If you are being bugged by it, don't wait.

And there are pretty simple mechanical changes that can be made for any other mechanical problem that is clashing with the flavor you want to achieve to. Actually more simple, because you only have to touch the game in one place rather than rewritting 20 or so spells.

 

[Masquerade]

4th thru 6th are the most fun levels anyway.

QFT

 

[Technik4]

I would take the 6th level cap over a restricted 10th. Like others, I feel like low-level d&d is the most exciting and "believable". There are many exploits the higher you go and systems like CR and EL aren't quite as accurate. Plus its harder to continually equip enemies and monsters.

If you have ever played an older rpg for the PS1 called Xenogears there is a power cap throughout the game, you can't unlock some of the characters' best attacks until a point in the story when certain inhibitors are removed from the characters. Something like this could work well (imo) in d&d - not something the heroes are actively questing for, but at some point in the story the 6th level characters get the ability to gain a couple more levels (not necessarily by removing inhibitors, FF1 did this to an extent via the Rat's Tail). Since you told them from the start it was a 6th-level campaign it would be a huge surprise and even if you elongated the experience needed to reach 7th and 8th they would feel pretty epic.

 

[Quartz]

I dislike level caps. Levels 8+ are where the characters can be really flexible. Figure out what your actual problem is and work on that. If you think that characters are getting too powerful, then consider exactly how they're getting too powerful. Be specific. For example:

Maybe the spellcasters gain power too quickly, in which case you might mandate multiclassing, meaning a maximum of 10th level of a spellcaster class. Or you might rewrite your adventures so that they have to spend XP on scribing scrolls and creating magic items.

Maybe the combat monsters are too good, in which case you might mandate multiclassing to a medium or low BAB class every other level.

Maybe the characters are too powerful physically, in which case you could drop the point buy total or reduce the XP awards.

Etc.

 

[Flamewarrior]

Getting to the cap is like saying "Hey, we've made it, we're badass, now we're going to get more versatile."

Actually, I just thought about making them become versatile all the time; instead of mandatory level increases before 6th/10th level and mandatory feats after, what would you think about:

- remove the feats from the character level progression;
- allowing feat buying with XP between any two levels;
- mandating a minimum number of feat choices between any two levels;
- possibly setting no maximum number of feat choices;
- possibly implementing a way for high-level feats to be chosen without fulfilling the prerequisites completely (e.g., saying that if you have a given number of feats that require BAB, you are considered to have a fraction of this number as extra BAB for prerequisites, and so on for all other numerical prerequisites), since I don't think this would take the "LotR factor" out - in general, high-level class options are what do this;
- possibly allowing all classes?

 

[Grimstaff]

I don't cap, but I do slow exp down enough that "retirement" age usually comes around 13th lvl or so.

My chart:
1 - 0
2 - 2000
3 - 4000
4 - 7000
5 - 10000
6 - 20000
7 - 30000
8 - 50000
9 - 70000
10 - 100000
11- 130000
12- 160000
13- 200000

Its worked great so far, plus we've been trying to stick to "Core3" only, which also seems to alleviate the power creep at higher levels.

Levels 1-5 are considered the "apprentice" levels, needing little exp to get reasonably competant. Hitting 10th lvl is a big accomplishment, akin to "Name Level" in grognard jargon, that's generally when you found your own guild, barony, temple, etc. 10-13th is good for the "get the old buddies together again to save the world" type adventures, since most dungeoneering is redundant, and the party is finally powerful enough to face down powerful dragons, demons, liches, etc, but not so powerful they can't still get their a$$es handed to them from time to time!

 

[starwed]

Rather than flat out elminating casters in the 10 level version, why not make them "advanced classes" like d20 modern does? Not being able to enter a casting class until 4th level significantly weakens their power.

 

[Deekin]

:Smacks Head:

Completely forgot about d20 Modern. A good Online MSRD can be found Here and it achives your goal of limiting magic to say, 5th level, but with some of the more problematic spells, like teleport, being moved to epic rituals. I think you could probably just port the classes wholesale into D&D, with some minor changes, like lowering the BDB, and some feat retooling.