Which Mythologies/Pantheons do you want?

[Center-of-All]

I'd love to see something like a Deities and Demigods from you, especially if it was more a compilation of obscure pantheons then a presentation of the whole. Leave Norse, Chinese, Japanese, etc. to their own II entry. Throw together the Incan, Finnish, Slavic, African, Amerindian, Australian, Polynesian, etc. into one larger compilation. This may make them a more appealing purchase then if they were separate. I'd be really interested in your take on the Haitian pantheon, now that I think about it.

As for your shortening, I'd see the notstatting of the priests et. al. as a necessary evil. I'd like to see Exarch stats, especially (though they'd certainly make good blessings). Actually, considering how much smaller the 4E statblocks are compared to the 3E ones, I'm surprised you think they'd take so much more space.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I'd love to see something like a Deities and Demigods from you, especially if it was more a compilation of obscure pantheons then a presentation of the whole. Leave Norse, Chinese, Japanese, etc. to their own II entry. Throw together the Incan, Finnish, Slavic, African, Amerindian, Australian, Polynesian, etc. into one larger compilation. This may make them a more appealing purchase then if they were separate.

Thats a possibility. Of course the thing about more obscure pantheons is that they are still pantheons, so they'll still take up as much room as other pantheons unless I only pick maybe a dozen key figures from each.

I'd be really interested in your take on the Haitian pantheon, now that I think about it.

I was thinking that Haitian would be in tandem with any African Mythology treatment, considering the links.

As for your shortening, I'd see the notstatting of the priests et. al. as a necessary evil. I'd like to see Exarch stats, especially (though they'd certainly make good blessings). Actually, considering how much smaller the 4E statblocks are compared to the 3E ones, I'm surprised you think they'd take so much more space.

If we use Orcus' entry in the Monster Manual as a rule of thumb then every deity (plus either an aspect, avatar or exarch) is going to take a double page spread...minimum.

That breaks down as follows:

1/2 Page: Write-up, Divine Information (absent in MM) and Lore
1/2 Page: Stat Block, Tactics
1/2 Page: Illustration
1/2 Page: Secondary Stat Block (Aspect, Exarch etc.) and Encounters/Adventure Ideas

Technically an illustration for every other deity is probably more likely, which means those that don't have an illustration will get an extra stat-block in their entry.

That means, depending on the size of the Immortals Index books:

32 Pages: 12 Entries
48 Pages: 20 Entries
64 Pages: 28 Entries
80 Pages: 36 Entries
96 Pages: 44 Entries
128 Pages: 60 Entries
160 Pages: 76 Entries

Therefore a book with six (minor) pantheons covered, each with 12 entries (on average) would require 160 pages, 72 Entries and 37 illustrations (36 interior + cover).

 

[Center-of-All]

Hmmm, those numbers seem right to me. Extrapolating on those numbers, your pre-pre-conceptualization of the Greek Pantheon would be an 80ish page pdf, which seems about right, all told.

A 160 page multipantheon book probably short shifts those pantheons, but it may be unavoidable if they're to be done at all. Even judging by these results, there doesn't seem enough interest in the Incans to justify the work you'd put into making a full II entry for them. So throw them in with the Australian, Polynesian, African, Amerindian (+Inuit?), and Finnish pantheons to maybe make it more enticing. The flip side of that is, though, that you may end up putting significant effort into something that nobody wants to buy. Hmmmm. Perhaps multiple entries into something like this, pairing a well known pantheon with a lesser known one? Just throwing out ideas.

And yeah, there are some significant links there. But honestly, I just can't see Baron Samedi (complete with top hat and white tuxedo) and his ilk meshing well with the gods of the Ashanti (just to throw a name out). The visual difference is very striking.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy!

By the way, is it just me or is ENWorld slow since the update? Its taking me up to 10 minutes to load a page more often than not. I actually got timed out earlier when I tried to post this five hours ago.

Hmmm, those numbers seem right to me. Extrapolating on those numbers, your pre-pre-conceptualization of the Greek Pantheon would be an 80ish page pdf, which seems about right, all told.

A 160 page multipantheon book probably short shifts those pantheons, but it may be unavoidable if they're to be done at all. Even judging by these results, there doesn't seem enough interest in the Incans to justify the work you'd put into making a full II entry for them. So throw them in with the Australian, Polynesian, African, Amerindian, and Finnish pantheons to maybe make it more enticing. The flip side of that is, though, that you may end up putting significant effort into something that nobody wants to see. Hmmmm. Perhaps multiple entries into something like this, pairing a well known pantheon with a lesser known one? Just throwing out ideas.

I did some brainstorming last night in work and I actually think that the smaller pantheon approach would work.

Last night I tabled a version of the Finnish mythos that I think is pretty interesting with only 12 entries (effectively 24 pages with maybe a few more pages discussing the mythology and other stuff bringing it up to 32 pages).

I am now thinking that multiple smaller entries is definately the way to go. With perhaps the Norse, Greek and Egyptian mythos comprising a double-sized book (24 entries).

Then we could have one mythos per continent and put them in a bigger book (five or six mythologies in a 160 page book).

One problem with doing a full pantheon for lesser mythologies is that you will probably end up ticking all the same boxes for a lot of the mythologies. Whereas, limiting myself to 12 entries you get to pick the more interesting and original gods, heroes and monsters.

And yeah, there are some significant links there. But honestly, I just can't see Baron Samedi (complete with top hat and white tuxedo) and his ilk meshing well with the gods of the Ashanti (just to throw a name out). The visual difference is very striking.

 

[Center-of-All]

Well, that sounds good to me. Especially if it means we get more pantheons sooner. The expansion for larger/more popular pantheons would work too (as in, the sales would warrant it), though I don't think it's necessary. You can make a perfectly servicable Greek pantheon with just the dodekatheon, maybe tossing Dionysus for Hades.

By the way, have you checked out White Wolf's Scion line? I grabbed a free download a few days back, and while the system is a bit of a mess, the game fluff and ideas behind abilities may be interesting enough to rip from.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey Center-of-All dude!

Well, that sounds good to me. Especially if it means we get more pantheons sooner. The expansion for larger/more popular pantheons would work too (as in, the sales would warrant it), though I don't think it's necessary. You can make a perfectly servicable Greek pantheon with just the dodekatheon, maybe tossing Dionysus for Hades.

Well I think Mythos is a better word to describe it than Pantheon, as it will have Gods, Monsters, Heroes and Artifacts rather than simply concentrating on the Pantheon itself.

The sheer amount of interesting monsters in the Greek Mythos sort of necessitates something double sized. The Norse and Egyptian stuff probably needs about an extra 50% rather than a full double sized book.

By the way, have you checked out White Wolf's Scion line? I grabbed a free download a few days back, and while the system is a bit of a mess, the game fluff and ideas behind abilities may be interesting enough to rip from.

Sounds interesting (I checked out the website) although the reviews there (and at RPGNow didn't say much). I may get to check it out when I am in London in 3 weeks time.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey all!

Just wondering if I am the only reader of Marvel's the Incredible Hercules at the moment?

The reason I ask, and the reason I ask in this thread in particular is because Hercules is on a mission with four other deities to attack an alien pantheon whose worshippers are invading Earth.

The team is composed of:

1. Hercules (leader)
2. Snowbird/Narya - Daughter of an Eskimo Goddess (I think)
3. Mikaboshi - Japanese Death God
4. Ajak - One of the Eternals (take too long to explain)
5. Atum - Elder God
6. Amadeus Cho - Human, Child Prodigy/Mastermind

The team was picked one from the North (Snowbird), one from the South (Ajak), one from the East (Mikaboshi) and one from the West (Hercules).

Along the way they have already encountered Nightmare itself and just recently they arrived at the Skrull Gods Palace which is orbited by the remnants of 978 defeated Pantheons who are now slaves to the Skrull Gods.

So all this has got me thinking about conquering Pantheons and Slave Pantheons. I'm thinking that a defeated Pantheon would have its members:

4E: Drop 10 Levels
3E: Levels Halved with Divine Status dropping two Places.

Effectively, defeated Pantheon Members are reduced to effective Avatar status.

Its also made me think about the amount of power gained from worshippers and that each individual worshipper should be less relevant the higher you go. Rather than a linear (x10) method. Although I haven't fully deduced that equation yet.

 

[Alzrius]

3. Mikaboshi - Japanese Death God

This struck me as odd, because I'm fairly familiar with Japanese mythology, and I've never heard of this deity. Wikipedia turned up this article on Amatsu-Mikaboshi, which makes it sound MUCH cooler than a mere death deity!

So all this has got me thinking about conquering Pantheons and Slave Pantheons. I'm thinking that a defeated Pantheon would have its members:

4E: Drop 10 Levels
3E: Levels Halved with Divine Status dropping two Places.

Effectively, defeated Pantheon Members are reduced to effective Avatar status.

I'm just glad you have us a 3.5 version of this. "Slave Pantheons" huh? Kickass! Though, even with such a drastic reduction in power, it seems like they could still inflict some moderate-to-serious damage on the concurring pantheon. E.g. a greater-turned-intermediate deity could still attack the attacking pantheon's intermediate deities, etc.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Howdy Alzrius mate!

This struck me as odd, because I'm fairly familiar with Japanese mythology, and I've never heard of this deity. Wikipedia turned up this article on Amatsu-Mikaboshi, which makes it sound MUCH cooler than a mere death deity!

Exactly. I have been doing a bit of checking up on Japanese mythology recently and this figure has stood out as the 'Elder Evil' of the mythos.

I'm just glad you have us a 3.5 version of this.

I'd always try to give both sets whenever possible.

"Slave Pantheons" huh? Kickass!

Yes, I love the idea myself.

Though, even with such a drastic reduction in power, it seems like they could still inflict some moderate-to-serious damage on the concurring pantheon. E.g. a greater-turned-intermediate deity could still attack the attacking pantheon's intermediate deities, etc.

But a Greater would turn into a Lesser God (3E) or Demigod (4E).

I'll see about doing an article based on the Hercules comic for the website.

 

[Alzrius]

Exactly. I have been doing a bit of checking up on Japanese mythology recently and this figure has stood out as the 'Elder Evil' of the mythos.

I wonder if that personifies the idea of Amatsu-Mikaboshi too much to call it an "elder evil," per se. The idea that it's a non-sentient, inherently corruptive force is pretty cool because it can't really be defeated or destroyed. It's like, in Star Wars, trying to "kill" or "defeat" the Dark Side.

That said, it's cool that this myth also sort of has its cake and eats it too, with Ama-no-Kagaseo. Though it doesn't discuss that very much, he strikes me as sort of being the avatar of Mikaboshi, which is ironic since you don't consider an unthinking force to have a sentient avatar.

Of course, in the Krustiverse, this is all something of a moot point, as every force has a personification at some level.

I'd always try to give both sets whenever possible.

Yet another reason to "go copyright," as they say. By the by, any reaction to the news that Goodman Games is apparently producing adventures using the 4E rules under the OGL, prior to their adoption of the GSL?

Yes, I love the idea myself.

It does just reek of awesomeness.

But a Greater would turn into a Lesser God (3E) or Demigod (4E).

D'oh! You even put that right there, and I still bungled it up.

Nevermind what I said then.

I'll see about doing an article based on the Hercules comic for the website.

Sweet!