Which Non-D&D TSR Game Would You Like to See WotC Revive?

[Starbrat]

I'd love to see Alternity again. There is a a new game that uses the name, but I found that the game play was noticeably different. They have some commonalities, but only some.
Or am I just feeling a bit of edition-lag?

 

[R_J_K75]

I always wondered what messed up contractual issues caused WotC to not renew their license with LFL for Star Wars.

I wonder if it had something to do with Disney buying Star Wars in 2012, if the deal was in negotiations when WotC was trying to renew their license in 2010?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I always wondered what messed up contractual issues caused WotC to not renew their license with LFL for Star Wars.

It was clear that the SWRPG was doing well overall, and it's hard to believe they made renewing the license in 2010 so expensive that WotC couldn't afford it but FFG could.

To my understanding, and I'm recalling things that were posted well over a decade ago, it had something to do with the fact that their Star Wars minis line and the RPG both fell under the same license, and there were issues about how many products they could make a year (minimum and maximum) and minis releases counting towards that, and what kind of sales Hasbro wanted to see for the RPG. The license was never written with a miniatures game in mind alongside the RPG and it always kept WotC in an awkward position to support a hit minis game under a license they were having to stretch the wording of to get the minis to even fall under in the first place.

A SWRPG based on the 5e rules I think would work well. The 5e subclass idea seems well suited to Star Wars. I'm already imagining Jedi Guardian, Jedi Sentinel and Jedi Consular, along with Sith Warrior, Sith Sorcerer and Sith Assassin sub-classes for a Jedi base class.

I agree that it would work well. FF isn’t making RPGs anymore, IIRC, so maybe that means we will see soemthing new another company soon.

 

[wingsandsword]

I wonder if it had something to do with Disney buying Star Wars in 2012, if the deal was in negotiations when WotC was trying to renew their license in 2010?

No.

I've read and studied a LOT about the Disney acquisition of LFL.

Disney originally made an offer in the summer 2011, but Lucas didn't take it seriously and refused, not wanting to sell the company. What changed his mind was the flop of the film Red Tails in January 2012. It flopped hard enough that LFL would have to lay off most of its employees and seriously reduce operations to avoid bankruptcy. Lucas didn't want that, and thought that selling LFL to Disney would protect the jobs of the people that worked there. So, Lucas talked to the "Big 3" OT cast members of Hamill, Ford, and Fisher to get them under contract "in case" LFL ever made another trilogy (Hamill has said that he had no idea when he signed that Lucas was going to sell LFL, and that sequel films were only mentioned by Lucas as something he was just contemplating possibly doing one day, so he signed not knowing that Lucas was planning to sell his contract to Disney), and wrote some script outlines as a way to pad the asking price of the company, then called Bob Iger back (who was an old acquaintance of Lucas's, having met back in the early 90's when Lucas was making Young Indiana Jones and Iger was a low-level employee at ABC working on the show), and they made negotiations in the Spring and Summer of 2012, such as Kathleen Kennedy coming on as Co-CEO in summer 2012 to facilitate the transition before the deal was finalized in October 2012.

There are no indications that Lucas was seriously considering selling LFL before January 2012, and the earliest that they've even mentioned that Disney showed any interest was 2011.

WotC's Star Wars license was from 2000 to 2010. Their first RPG product, the original core rules came out in November 2000, and they purged their website of all Star Wars content circa July 2010. So, when license renewal was an issue was over a year before the buyout was even first proposed.

 

[R_J_K75]

No.

I've read and studied a LOT about the Disney acquisition of LFL.

Disney originally made an offer in the summer 2011, but Lucas didn't take it seriously and refused, not wanting to sell the company. What changed his mind was the flop of the film Red Tails in January 2012. It flopped hard enough that LFL would have to lay off most of its employees and seriously reduce operations to avoid bankruptcy. Lucas didn't want that, and thought that selling LFL to Disney would protect the jobs of the people that worked there. So, Lucas talked to the "Big 3" OT cast members of Hamill, Ford, and Fisher to get them under contract "in case" LFL ever made another trilogy (Hamill has said that he had no idea when he signed that Lucas was going to sell LFL, and that sequel films were only mentioned by Lucas as something he was just contemplating possibly doing one day, so he signed not knowing that Lucas was planning to sell his contract to Disney), and wrote some script outlines as a way to pad the asking price of the company, then called Bob Iger back (who was an old acquaintance of Lucas's, having met back in the early 90's when Lucas was making Young Indiana Jones and Iger was a low-level employee at ABC working on the show), and they made negotiations in the Spring and Summer of 2012, such as Kathleen Kennedy coming on as Co-CEO in summer 2012 to facilitate the transition before the deal was finalized in October 2012.

There are no indications that Lucas was seriously considering selling LFL before January 2012, and the earliest that they've even mentioned that Disney showed any interest was 2011.

WotC's Star Wars license was from 2000 to 2010. Their first RPG product, the original core rules came out in November 2000, and they purged their website of all Star Wars content circa July 2010. So, when license renewal was an issue was over a year before the buyout was even first proposed.

I was just taking a shot in the dark with that guess. Sounds like youve definitely looked into it quite a bit so Im fully confident thats the truth. Thats pretty cool that the main reason he sold LFL was to save alot of jobs even if he may have "duped" (and I use the term loosely) Hamil, Ford and Fischer.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

No.

I've read and studied a LOT about the Disney acquisition of LFL.

Disney originally made an offer in the summer 2011, but Lucas didn't take it seriously and refused, not wanting to sell the company. What changed his mind was the flop of the film Red Tails in January 2012. It flopped hard enough that LFL would have to lay off most of its employees and seriously reduce operations to avoid bankruptcy.

Do you have a source for this? Red Tails wasn't a huge blockbuster, but it wasn't a massive flop. It wasn't going to end LucasFilms or send it into bankruptcy. Not even close.

Every source I've read in the past has told the same story- this was just mounting frustration, from the response to the prequels, to the Crystal Skull, to the terrible time he had getting Red Tails made (and the lack of both box office and critical love- it did ... fine).

It was the gradual accretion of the slings and arrows. Not that Red Tail flopped.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

I loved Marvel Superheroes. It definitely was the best superhero game, enabling you to customize your own without getting mired in character creation. And it was able to directly use the IP rather than just populating it with a bunch of ersatz versions. That being said, I don't think I could handle jumping back into Marvel's sprawling continuity. I collect three Marvel comics right now - Thor, Dr. Strange, and Morbius. I don't have the headspace to keep track of everything like I did when I was younger.

I thought for sure Marvel Super Heroes would walk away with this. I guess not enough voters played. The best supers game to date.

I voted for Gamma World and Top Secret. But really, it's just Gamma World. I really like the new version of Top Secret that came out a few years ago. Really easy to understand and something I definitely plan on running one day. I don't think we're going to see Wizards invest in launching competing properties again, but Gamma World is one that I feel could work as a setting for D&D.

 

[aramis erak]

No love for DL 5th Age? I'd love to see a modern version of the Saga rules.

I've finally gotten the whole thing...
I like it, many players don't.
I've a 3/4 complete JS implementation of Char Gen on a HD of a dead computer.

 

[M.L. Martin]

In my memory this was a little later so I thought it was a WotC game. I love the Marvel version of the game and would really like a more generic toolkit based on the system.

It came out in August/September 1996, just before TSR went under. Great system and setting wasted on an unappreciative franchise and fan base.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I thought for sure Marvel Super Heroes would walk away with this. I guess not enough voters played. The best supers game to date.

It was ridiculously ahead of its time and played really well - completely unlike virtually all other superhero RPGs (certainly those I played) up until like, the 2000s.

I'm always befuddled by the extreme love for Gamma World some people have. I feel like it might be a generational or cultural thing. Everyone I've met who loves it is either like like 5-15 years older than me, or American (and of at least the same age as me), or both.

By the time I got to it, in like, 1990, it felt really cheesy and old-hat, and it seemed like a lot of other games did post-apocalyptic stuff in a less ludicrous and over-the-top way. The fact that fans tended to focus on the most OTT/ludicrous/joke-y elements when I got online in the mid-90s only reinforced the "Old Person Joke Game" impression I've always had of it. Probably terribly unfair to see it that way, but people sure talked about it like it was a giant joke.

It came out in August/September 1996, just before TSR went under. Great system and setting wasted on an unappreciative franchise and fan base.

Yeah pretty much exactly. The system was extremely good - not perfect - but very good (as was MSHAG, but I feel like FASERIP still outdoes MSHAG in terms of TSR Marvel games). The setting was unfortunate, because, really, no-one wanted to play the 5th Age setting. I kind of liked it myself, but that was kind of because I wasn't actually a DL fan, just familiar with DL. It's also kind of a mess in terms of how it was presented, because it's trying to be Dragonlance, whilst also massively trying to change Dragonlance into an almost dystopian setting.

I feel like the same rules, and a very similar setting (only minus ever having been Dragonlance, rather built from the ground up, somewhat less generic-fantasy stuff too), and being released say, ten years later, and it'd be a sort of cult RPG which still had a significant following and influence.