Which of these two maneuvers should I take

[Volsung]

My warblade will be hitting 6th level soon and I'm planning on trading out a maneuver for either Iron Heart Surge or Mind Over Body. I like both, but I'm just not sure which is the better choice.

Iron Heart Surge seems potent, when you can use it. However, to use it you have to be able to take a standard action, and be able to move, so it puts distinct limits on what effects it can end.

Mind Over Body would probably see more use, though realistically Fortitude is the warblade's good save. At higher levels a Concentration check is plain better, but will he be making his Fortitude saves regularly anyway?

[sblock=Here are my character's 5th level stats]Male human warblade 5
CG Medium humanoid (human)
Init +3; Senses Listen +0, Spot +5
AC 24, touch 15, dex-denied 20
hp 58 (5 HD)
Fort +6, Ref +6 (+4 when flat-footed), Will +1
Spd 20 ft.
Base Atk +5; Grp +8
Atk Options martial stance, martial maneuvers (4 readied)
Maneuvers known moment of perfect mind, steel wind, emerald razor, sapphire nightmare blade, disarming strike, insightful strike
Stances known punishing stance, stance of clarity
Class abilities battle clarity (Int bonus to Reflex when not flat-footed), uncanny dodge, battle ardor (Int bonus to critical confirmation rolls)
Abilities Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats dodge, mobility, adaptive style, blind-fight(b)
Skills(ranks) Balance +8(7), Climb +8(7), Concentration +10(8), Heal +8(8), Jump +11(7), Knowledge (history) +3(1), Knowledge (local) +3(1), Sense Motive +1(1), Spot +5(5), Tumble +9(8), Martial Lore +3(1)
skill tricks nimble stand[/sblock]

 

[Hyperfist]

Ironheart Surge is good for when you are paralyzed and what not. It allows you to shake thigns off...and basically a lot of effects that are out there. As far as I recall. I don't have the books.

I must admit Mind over Body is dope though. With a good constitution score..you can boost your concentration to heights far greater than your Fort Save. Have had to use that a lot for my 13th level Warblade. You get the most bang for your buck with getting all the Diamond items that boost saves. That way your high concentration really becomes useful. Also helps if you focus on Diamond Mind maneuvers too.

Depends on your flair.

 

[Volsung]

Actually, RAW you can't use Iron Heart Surge when paralyzed, since you have to be able to move to use a maneuver. I guess that's my sticking point, I'm not sure how useful that would be in play.

I denifitely appreciate the sharing of your experience with the various Diamond Mind concentration check for saves counters. That's the most useful kind of info, especially since I plan on focusing on Iron Heart and Diamond Mind maneuvers almost exclusively.

 

[Hyperfist]

Good point. I think that has reduced it's effectiveness. Cause it only works against effects that last longer than a round. Hehehe. Wait a minute. Iron Heart Surge would work against Black Fire. But since you aren't coming up against that 9th level spell at level 6.

Not so bad.

 

[Henry]

Actually, RAW you can't use Iron Heart Surge when paralyzed, since you have to be able to move to use a maneuver. I guess that's my sticking point, I'm not sure how useful that would be in play.

I denifitely appreciate the sharing of your experience with the various Diamond Mind concentration check for saves counters. That's the most useful kind of info, especially since I plan on focusing on Iron Heart and Diamond Mind maneuvers almost exclusively.

I'm iffy on that myself, since you're right, by the rules, but the text mentions "shaking off debilitiating effects" which implies being able to use it against paralysis effects. Makes it less useful, but it's still nice when you've been hit by waves of fatigue, blindness, etc.

 

[Gloombunny]

As a warblade you get, like, 4 readied maneuvers. Do you really want to spend one of them on better Fortitude saves? I can see taking the one that replaces a Will save with Concentration, 'cuz Will saves are a big weakness for characters such as warblades... but Fortitude?

I dunno. What other maneuvers do you use? I don't have enough warblade experience to be certain, it just doesn't seem like you have enough readied slots to make Mind Over Body worth it.

 

[Volsung]

I wasn't really planning on puting either counter on hand at all times. But there are definitely times when having a clutch Fortitude save would be extremely useful. For example, if you're facing off against a hoard of ghouls, or against an enemy that favors poisoned weapons.

 

[Kat']

Then you can always use Iron Heart Surge to get rid of the debilitating effects... Frankly, Mind over body may be nice for Swordsages with low Fort save and lots of maneuvers to spend, but for a Warblade, IHS is definitely better.

 

[Volsung]

Then you can always use Iron Heart Surge to get rid of the debilitating effects... Frankly, Mind over body may be nice for Swordsages with low Fort save and lots of maneuvers to spend, but for a Warblade, IHS is definitely better.

Sometimes. Once you've been paralyzed by the ghoul or ghast IHS won't help you because you're unable to move. If you fail your poison save you're still taking the initial damage, even if you use IHS to remove the effect. And if it's drow knockout poison IHS won't help you unless you succeeded at your Fort save.

Realistically my warblade will be failing Fort saves against equal CR encounters about 40%-45% of the time. Mind Over Body virtually eliminates this when I can use it.

 

[Hyperfist]

I think at this point Volsung, you know what you want. I pack both of them to tell you the truth. Just in case I used the Mind over Body earlier. But that is the crap shoot. Since you don't know sometimes what you are getting hit with, you tend to want to make the Fort save.

The way you are arguing seems that you are leaning towards that bent. Besides..the nice with Diamond Mind maneuvers...is that a lot of them are concentration based. So if you boost your Con, it helps your concentration, and boosts your Fortitude as well.

Whichever you choose...I think you will find situations where you wish you had the other one. No matter what.