D&D 3E/3.5 Which race "got the shaft" in 3.5

[Thanee]

I don't know many 4th level cleric spells, which can keep up with the amount of damage Divine Power puts out in a combat with the right concept (melee or ranged doesn't really matter). And it's a very efficient spell, too, retaining most spells for healing purposes.


Yep, demiraces are about limiting concepts and more whole advantages for those concepts (compared to the human, who gets more choice instead).

Half-Elf and Half-Orc seem to be the most limited to me.

The Half-Elf is basically the same as the Human, just all around weaker, and the Half-Orc has too many penalties and too little (altho pretty good) advantages in comparison as it seems.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

I don't know many 4th level cleric spells, which can keep up with the amount of damage Divine Power puts out in a combat with the right concept (melee or ranged doesn't really matter). And it's a very efficient spell, too, retaining most spells for healing purposes.

Basically, save or die spells are more effective. And, if I were to make a cleric with some non-spell combat capability, I will difinitely go for melee type with two-handed reach weapon.

Half-Elf and Half-Orc seem to be the most limited to me.

For me, Elves are equally limited at least. Half-Elves are not that much limited. They have no penalty on any stats and has favored class "any" (though sometimes this is not the best) and yet have low-light vision, and have good skill bonuses. They can be very good Bard (though this class is a little bit weaker), cleric, & paladin. Elves are not as good as half-elves in those fields.

 

[Gez]

In 3.5, I'd say half-orcs, because they didn't got anything interesting; or gnomes, because, well, bards??????????????????

And I'll add a few more ?????? to the bard thing. WTF??????????????????????????

 

[Thanee]

@Shin Okada: I guess it just depends a bit on the other characters, playing style and situation. I just don't think that Elves are universally weak or anything, especially not weaker than Half-Elves.

[Off-Topic] Just a little off-topic question. Since you seem to value hit points fairly high, do players in your group pick up Improved Toughness often? I actually thought about making a fighter once, who uses all bonus feats on Improved Toughness. That would result in a pretty high number of hit points with the regular feats left for all the fun stuff.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

[Off-Topic] Just a little off-topic question. Since you seem to value hit points fairly high, do players in your group pick up Improved Toughness often? I actually thought about making a fighter once, who uses all bonus feats on Improved Toughness. That would result in a pretty high number of hit points with the regular feats left for all the fun stuff. Thanee

Well, our previous and current campains are both "core rule only" and thus feats from CW are not allowed. But IMHO taking Improved Tougness is one of a better choice anyway. Especially after L5 or so.

But can a character take Improved Toughness multiple times at all? I am afraid that is not allowed.

 

[Thanee]

Hmm... you might be right there... Toughness can be selected multiple times, Improved Toughness does not list that part, I just assumed it works the same, because they are both pretty similar.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

Spoiler

Under spoiler tag, not to distract from the main discussion...

Please, do share!

Orc / Half-Orc

+2 Strength, -2 Intelligence
Darkvision 60ft
Scent 30ft
Combat Instinct (nonproficiency penalties are halved)
+2 ST vs Fear spells and effects
+2 Intimidate, Survival and Handle Animal

 

[Gort]

Did you ever see a player who actually saw benefit from "combat instinct"?

Looks like a decent race to me though.

 

[Li Shenron]

Did you ever see a player who actually saw benefit from "combat instinct"?

Looks like a decent race to me though.

Absolutely not, it was solely intended for flavor

 

[brehobit]

Thanks to everyone for the comments.

After all this, I think the best race, for almost anything non-CHR based, is a Dwarf. The Dwarf really lacks any disadvantage other than slower with no armor and the -2 CHR. The +2 to CON is probably to the 2nd best stat, while the -2 CHR is to the least generally useful (IMO). Further, the Exotic WPs are really nice, as are the save bonuses and the anti-trip ability.

Elves would be great other than the stat modifiers. HPs are just too important to take the -2 CON unless you have really high stats to play with. The other elven abilities rock.

Halflings and Gnomes have their only real disadvantage as being small and losing the STR bonus.

Human's major advantage, IMO, is the lack of disadvantages. The feat and skill points are nice, but I just don't see them as significant as everyone else does. The multi-class thing is nice if you are non-spell caster, but not that[\i] nice. I'd put humans above half-elves and maybe tied with halflings. But the lack of "see in the dark" ability is nasty, the the other races just get so many bonuses.

I realize most of you play a lot more than I get a chance too, but just looking at the bonuses, the other races seem so much better....

Mark