D&D 3.x Which race "got the shaft" in 3.5

[Mr. Kaze]

Funny. I play arcane casters almost exclusively and it's been my experience that, barring exotic races with bonuses to the casting stat, halflings make the very BEST arcane casters.

Because, given reasonable precautions (+CON boosting items, spells like False Life, companions to hide behind) HP really isn't so much of a limiting factor as INITIATIVE.

(And also some of the bread-and-butter measures of arcane power DO in fact use attack rolls: Enervation, Disintegration, etc)

Having played a halfling caster, I can say: Darn Skippy.

Slow movement was never a problem with Fly on me. And the fact that I had more Dex than Cha was of precious little concern when using Scorching Ray (all ranged touch, no save). Having a healthy initiative boost was good for tossing out Haste on my allies before they went charging off to their almost certain doom, too. (Well, the ones that didn't have Improved Initiative, anyway.)

After using a halfling, I can't imagine taking, for example, an elf wizard into combat -- -1 to AC, to attacks, to all saves... and why? So I can use a longbow if I run out of spells? Really folks, if I'm out of spells, I'm out of combat and the $50 I might spend on a bow because I can't get any wands for that price isn't going to make it any better.

Cheers,
::Kaze

 

[smetzger]

Kobolds and Goblins are what I refer to as "LA -1" races, as they're obviously weaker than other races.

I agree with you on the Goblin, but the kobold is a decent race. They have darkvision and are small, yet they have a 30 ft speed. Of the small races I would pick kobold over halfling or gnome for a spellcaster.

 

[Thanee]

IMHO human and Half-Elf are top two suitable races for Cleric (and I can't decide which one is better than another).

Given the lack of feats and that they really want lots of feats, Human is a very good race for the Cleric.

Elf (archery) and Dwarf (melee) make both incredibly good Clerics, too.

I think every race can make a good Cleric (Halfling Travel/Trickery Clerics are fun, too ), just depends on the style. Half-Elf is quite nice for the skill bonuses, if you emphasize on those, but then Bard is probably the right class, not cleric.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I agree with you on the Goblin, but the kobold is a decent race. They have darkvision and are small, yet they have a 30 ft speed. Of the small races I would pick kobold over halfling or gnome for a spellcaster.

Goblin
Small Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

Given the lack of feats and that they really want lots of feats, Human is a very good race for the Cleric.

Elf (archery) and Dwarf (melee) make both incredibly good Clerics, too.

I think every race can make a good Cleric (Halfling Travel/Trickery Clerics are fun, too ), just depends on the style. Half-Elf is quite nice for the skill bonuses, if you emphasize on those, but then Bard is probably the right class, not cleric.

Bye
Thanee

Elf's stats are not so good for cleric class. Dex bonus is not so important as clerics can wear heavy armor (Max Dex Bonus). On the other hand, low con is still a clear disadvantage. Regarding archery cleric. Now in 3.5e, this type of cleric is not as good as it were in 3.0e, because now enhancemennt bonus of bow and arrow do not stack, and GMW is weakened. And, when you really need, a cleric can take Zen Archery feat and need not to have very high Dex.

Dwarf Cleric has CHA penalty and Turn Undead is a CHA dependant ability. Not just i'ts effectiveness, but also it's number per day is deteremined by CHA. While their toughness is good for almost any classes, having penalty on such an important ability (for a cleric) is not a small problem. And also, cleric is often required to be double as a party negotiator.

Thus, I think Half-Elf is a better race than those 2 demihuman race as a cleric (And of course much better than small races).

Regarding Bard being the best class for a Half-Elf... I don't know. But IMHO that's relatively a weak class anyway. Unless you have really truly good stats (say, 48 point-buy), a Bard cannot be a power house. It's an interesting class. And very useful in many situations. Still, Bard is a "5th member class" at best.

 

[Shin Okada]

Mr. Kaze,

If your halfling wizard can always rely on fly spells, your DM is ceretainly not as nasty as I am (or my friends DMs are). And, at least that is a problem until the wizards reaches at a level when he can fly 24 h a day (or at least all the time he is in a dungeon) via spells and items.

Regarding an Elven Wizard, that is a bad choice anyway. Low Con Elf is the worst core race sans Half-Orc for a wizard.

 

[Thanee]

Archery Clerics are still good, they are just not broken anymore as they were in 3.0.

And Zen Archery? Clerics don't really have that many feats and archery is already quite feat intensive.

The Elf gives free weapon proficiency, free Point Blank Shot (if FR domains are allowed) and +2 Dex, which is pretty good, and the -2 Con is tolerable, if you at least don't get into melee that often. With a high Dex you only need light armor for the same AC you get with heavy armor otherwise, and you retain the full maneuverability, which can be quite important for an archer. Wis is only of secondary importance, so you can focus on a high Dex.

Really, they are mighty good as Clerics that way. I absolutely know that from experience (even had a 3.5 elven cleric (NPC, I was the DM) in a game once, and she was quite excellent), that they work very well in a game.

A Half-Elf would not even come close for this kind of concept, I'm sure.
The only race that can compete with the Elf here would be the Human.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Shin Okada]

and the -2 Con is tolerable, if you at least don't get into melee that often.

So your DM does not concentrate attacks and damaging spells on cleric? Clever civilized monsters often try to eliminate clerics first, as it wil remove the chance of healing other party members. Also, evil enemy who has some evil religious background (read as more than half of the villains) tend to hate clerics.

And, as clerics has good fort and will saves, clever opponent tend to use something which cannot be negated by those 2 kind of saves. Those kind of things often causes HP damages.

In my understanding, the primal job of a cleric is to survive and cast spells (or turn undeads).

 

[strongbow]

For your informal poll, I'd rank Half-Elf as the weakest, followed by half orc. Str is the easiest stat to raise, and weakens the +2 bonus that the raise gets. By raise, I mean have a higher score through a template, class abilities, etc, not just equipment.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

I agree with Thanee. A cleric that has a schtick other than spellcasting does not need a high Wis and can have combat stats just a couple notches behind a full-blooded fighter. If he is planning on being well protected, that Elf Cleric is no worse off than a Gnome/Dwarf Wizard for HPs.

I do not see clerics targetted all that much. Some of the more clever spellcasters do sometimes but mostly with area effects that catch the wizard, too. Most NPCs know that taking down the Cleric will help you live past Round 5, but taking down the Fighter allows you to live past Round 2.