Which race should rule the world?

[LuYangShih]

On Illithids... What mind control? The only power they have that is equivalent to what you're talking about is Charm Monster, and that is not very effective for getting other people to do what you want, if it is any way detrimental to them.

With that said, isn't it true that in standard D&D cosmology, the Illithids do control several worlds on the prime material plane? I assume they do not control the standard D&D settings is because the enemies and rivals they have in those settings keep them under control. The Drow in the FR, for example, are the dominant species in the Underdark, rather than the Illithids. They also don't have that high of a population rate, relatively speaking.

And that's not even mentioning the fact they are opposed by several powerful planar factions such as the Githzerai and Githyanki, who would likely interfere with any attempts at world domination by the Illithids.

 

[Thresher]

I used to love running games where rules lawyer pc's where going "but but but! they cant do that its not in the rulez!!!"
It usually followed someone copping a severe arsebeating in game
"What where you doing reading the MM? Bad PC!"
*slap*

As for charm monster, its a good spell with a nice long duration, it also can be used to some degree to affect the minds of people who dont necessarily want anything detrimental done to them.
Be nice to squid face and not get my frontal lobes torn out or be bad and have my face eaten?

Illithids are smart enough and have a relatively high score in intimidate from memory that means that they can use other resouces available to them like blackmail, hostage taking, becomming wizards and using magical items and artifacts to enhance them even further.
Sure Mindflayers have some homeworlds and conquered planets, they also have a sizeable presence in spelljammer in between worlds too. If nothing else I can do what I want under the disclaimer that its my game and nothing needs to be exactly "As the book says" if I think it will be hampering the fun in an adventure and especially if it is something that PC's cant just pick up a book and decide to look up the stats...

 

[LuYangShih]

Right, but we're discussing which races should have what levels of power, given the abilities and populations they have in standard D&D settings. What races, given the abilities and populations they possess, would control the greatest portion of the world? So the rules do matter. Other considerations do enter the picture, such as opposing factions, alliances, and lifespans. And yes, in your game you can have Illithids rule the world. And in my game, I could have Flying Invisible Pink Unicorns rule the world.

But that's not what we're discussing. I like creating, running and playing in believable worlds, and given that, I don't think Humans should be as dominant as they are, given the abilities and population of some other races. Illithids could be a force, but they aren't as powerful as you are suggesting, and I am merely pointing that out.

 

[LostSoul]

Right, but we're discussing which races should have what levels of power, given the abilities and populations they have in standard D&D settings.

Where are the populations gien in the Monster Manual? or PHB? I assume that anything that looks human can have the same population as humans do.

 

[LuYangShih]

Where are the populations gien in the Monster Manual? or PHB? I assume that anything that looks human can have the same population as humans do.

I'd estimate, that in a standard D&D setting, based off of Greyhawk and the Forgotten Realms, that the population density of the races discussed so far is about so, from highest to lowest:

Goblins.
Kobolds.
Orcs.
Humans.
Hobgoblins. (Hobbies could trade places with Humans, maybe, you rarely see Hobbies fully detailed in most worlds)
Dwarves.
Drow. (Bizarre, but true. Drow for some reason are supposed to have more numbers than seems reasonable, considering they are a subtype of Elves.)
Halflings.
Elves.
Gnomes.
Illithids.

I have no idea of the relative population of things like Wights, Shadows or Skaven, the first two because it's never really detailed, and the last because I have almost zero familarity with Scarred Lands.

 

[LostSoul]

Where do Ogre-Mages fit on that list?

 

[LuYangShih]

Hey, you can't expect me to remember ALL of the races mentioned, can you? Ogre Mages seem to be rather rare, so I would place them one step above or below Illithids.

 

[Thresher]

Well if we where going to go by the rules lock stock and barrel, Illithids universally as a species WANT to rule any prime material world they inhabit.

Admittedly they dont seem to be able to get their crap together very often and run away a lot but, the motivation is there to own large areas of the surface world as well as the underground.
This outlook is also matched by the fact that most of the other intelligent races tend to extend their grip on power to limited areas such as ruling a tribe/village, running a kingdom and so on. Occassionally some humanoid or human will rise above their station enough go on a rampage conquering nations but they dont last as frequently its a sole individual that does it. When he shuffles off then the whole show comes apart and its everyone for themselves again.

Illithids own worlds.
They might not own your world (yet )
But Mr Mindflayer as a species wants you to be his bitch.

 

[dren]

WHO Rules?

Depending upon the make-up of your world, it should determine which race should theoretically rule the world.

For example, in a heavy magic world, I think that with their long lives, fey conections and arcane/sorcery background, elves would have a huge advantage, and could easily rule the rest.

In worlds where catastrophe is common place, (think thread in Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels) a fecund race like orcs or goblns could more quickly replace their numbers, and gain an advantage that way and rule the rest of the scum.

In overly aquatic worlds, lizardmen who live in and can survive outside of the water have a tremendous asset. They could find lesser inhabited locales in order to thrive in, dominate and then expand, they would rule the coastal areas, then trade and then everyone else.

In worlds where there was one great environmental disaster, dwarves could abnadon the world and then emerge hundreds of years later unscathed and thriving whereas everyone else is weakened from mere survival and battle with each other. They come up in great numbers, overwhelm everyone and rule, they would have the strength in numbers and organizations.

In worlds of relative peace, I prefer dopplegangers as de facto rulers behind the scenes. IMHO, vampires like illithids need victims, as their victims drop in number they must eventually fight among themselves for their "food source."

In rugged worlds where life is short (think Dark Sun) I would probably give the edge to either the hobgoblins or minotaurs. They are stronger, more organized , with no real weaknesses (trolls are chaotic, ogres need to eat too much.)

In worlds where the biggest and baddest monsters are flumphs and deciding who is to come your pre-mid-day party but not your noon-day snack on days you've slept for 15+ hours: halflings. I wouldn't say they rule, but since no other intelligent life except for squirrels are there, let's give it to the halflings.

But in most worlds, where there is a little bit of everything mentioned above. Where both divine and arcane magic has to be utlilized, as well as unity and just overall resourcefulness, I think the edge has got to be humans. Flexibility is their great strength.

 

[Nightfall]

Humans have got nothing on Slitheren. And I intend to prove it.