D&D (2024) Which races would YOU put into the 50th anniversary Players Handbook?

[Bill Zebub]

And if PC char-gen rules don't reflect the differences inherent in the greater setting population then they're useless. 5e flat-out has this wrong, and is a poorer game for it.

They do "reflect" those differences. They're just not identical.

 

[Greg K]

Human
Dwarf
Elf
Gnome
Halfling

Goblin
Goliath
(edit) Kobold: (can't believe I forgot this)
Orc
LIzardman
Shifter

Deva*
Dragonborn*
Tiefling (Abyssal, Infernal)*
Warforged*

I'd take a page out of Fantasy Craft and make things Genesai, Half-Dwarf, Half-Elf and Half-Orc feats that can only be taken/applied at level 1.
* maybe use feats ffor these as well

 

[Lanefan]

They do "reflect" those differences. They're just not identical.

If, let's say, a typical Elf in the population is on average two points higher in dexterity than a typical Human, then if PC Elves are considered to be on the exact same 3-18 dexterity bell curve as PC Humans the overall setting population isn't being reflected well at all. The Elves are being mechanically forced to be more Human-like (and not the reverse; as the same lack of baked-in adjustment applies to Dwarves and Hobbits etc. whose typical stats vary in different directions from Human than do those of Elves), thus significantly reducing the difference between PC-playable species.

Not that a flat + or - number is the best reflection either; far better is to determine where in relation to the 3-18 bell curve the low and high extremes for each species' stats would be, and then adjust the whole bell curve to that. So, if one decides that the bell curve for Elf dexterity runs from 6-19 instead of 3-18 (3-18 being the universal Human baseline) then a roll of 3 in dex gets boosted to a 6, a roll of 18 goes up to 19, and a roll of 11 goes up to 13. Similarly the range of Hobbit strength might only be 3-16, meaning a rolled 18 gets knocked down to 16, a rolled 10 goes down to 9, and a rolled 3 stays as a 3.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

If, let's say, a typical Elf in the population is on average two points higher in dexterity than a typical Human, then if PC Elves are considered to be on the exact same 3-18 dexterity bell curve as PC Humans the overall setting population isn't being reflected well at all. The Elves are being mechanically forced to be more Human-like (and not the reverse; as the same lack of baked-in adjustment applies to Dwarves and Hobbits etc. whose typical stats vary in different directions from Human than do those of Elves), thus significantly reducing the difference between PC-playable species.

Not that a flat + or - number is the best reflection either; far better is to determine where in relation to the 3-18 bell curve the low and high extremes for each species' stats would be, and then adjust the whole bell curve to that. So, if one decides that the bell curve for Elf dexterity runs from 6-19 instead of 3-18 (3-18 being the universal Human baseline) then a roll of 3 in dex gets boosted to a 6, a roll of 18 goes up to 19, and a roll of 11 goes up to 13. Similarly the range of Hobbit strength might only be 3-16, meaning a rolled 18 gets knocked down to 16, a rolled 10 goes down to 9, and a rolled 3 stays as a 3.

This sounds like an enormous amount of work, and something that would be a major turn-off for casual players just looking into playing the game. "Generate your stats randomly, but adjust them according to which race you are, with a different amount of adjustment based on what your starting value was, with 2-4 different stats needing adjustment" might help boost immersion a little bit, but it's almost guaranteed to confuse and drive away a lot of people wanting to play.

 

[Bill Zebub]

, then if PC Elves are considered to be on the exact same 3-18 dexterity bell curve as PC Humans the overall setting population isn't being reflected well at all.

But that’s not the case. If, at your tables(s), players put the +2 into dexterity, then in your experience the curves are just what you think they should be.

If the people you game with don’t do that…maybe your aesthetic preferences aren’t shared?

(And of course it goes without saying that what happens at other tables has no bearing on your experience.)

I find the whole thing a little ridiculous. Out of the entire population of elves in the metaverse, who cares if a couple of PC elves don’t fit expectations? As ridiculous as insisting that PC elves not use crossbows, because average elves use bows.

 

[MoonSong]

But that’s not the case. If, at your tables(s), players put the +2 into dexterity, then in your experience the curves are just what you think they should be.

If the people you game with don’t do that…maybe your aesthetic preferences aren’t shared?

(And of course it goes without saying that what happens at other tables has no bearing on your experience.)

I find the whole thing a little ridiculous. Out of the entire population of elves in the metaverse, who cares if a couple of PC elves don’t fit expectations? As ridiculous as insisting that PC elves not use crossbows, because average elves use bows.

One or two is ok. But if we get to a point when most elf PCs are entirely divorced from Elvenhood, having no traits in common with what an elf is, exactly what is the point of having elves at all? Just having quick long rest as a superpower?

 

[Bill Zebub]

One or two is ok. But if we get to a point when most elf PCs are entirely divorced from Elvenhood, having no traits in common with what an elf is, exactly what is the point of having elves at all? Just having quick long rest as a superpower?

Such hyperbole! I am reminded of Dr. Venkmen (Bill Murray) from Ghostbusters:

“Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!”

If the people you play with build elves with "no traits in common" with what you think elves should be like, maybe your friends don't share your opinion on this? If that's the case, do you really want to force them to adhere to your aesthetic.

Surely you don't care what other tables do...?

You keep decrying powergaming/optimizing, but you seem really, really, really focused on ability scores and what they mean. That seems contradictory to me. If somebody roleplays being an elf, what does it matter what their ability scores are?

 

[Lanefan]

This sounds like an enormous amount of work, and something that would be a major turn-off for casual players just looking into playing the game. "Generate your stats randomly, but adjust them according to which race you are, with a different amount of adjustment based on what your starting value was, with 2-4 different stats needing adjustment" might help boost immersion a little bit, but it's almost guaranteed to confuse and drive away a lot of people wanting to play.

We've done it this way for about 40 years now and so far, so good...

Admittedly it can add a few minutes to the char-gen process, which is regrettable, but I think this is one case where the benefits far outweigh the drawback.

 

[Lanefan]

If the people you play with build elves with "no traits in common" with what you think elves should be like, maybe your friends don't share your opinion on this? If that's the case, do you really want to force them to adhere to your aesthetic.

Surely you don't care what other tables do...?

You keep decrying powergaming/optimizing, but you seem really, really, really focused on ability scores and what they mean. That seems contradictory to me. If somebody roleplays being an elf, what does it matter what their ability scores are?

@MoonSong is right, though: it's not just a few PC Elves that don't match their own species, it's every PC Elf. Which means, if one's only exposure to Elves in the setting comes from the PCs in your party you're going to get a warped idea of what Elves are like in the greater world.

As for powergaming/optimizing, ideally any benefits somewhere are balanced out by drawbacks elsewhere, thus taking much of the edge off of the optimizing angle...though of course it can never be eliminated entirely.

 

[Bill Zebub]

@MoonSong is right, though: it's not just a few PC Elves that don't match their own species, it's every PC Elf. Which means, if one's only exposure to Elves in the setting comes from the PCs in your party you're going to get a warped idea of what Elves are like in the greater world.

If the argument for fixed racial ASIs depends on making sure new players are imagining elves correctly, then I think the debate is well and truly over.