D&D 5E Whip Feat

[jaelis]

You know what I would like more than the "advantage on checks" bit would be something like:
- When you use your whip as a tool to manipulate an object or perform a stunt, you can add your proficiency bonus to any relevant checks.

I like that because:
(a) it doesn't suggest that the feat is required to do that kind of thing; if anything, it suggests that anyone can do it, you just do it proficiently
(b) it comports with the standard rules for tools and proficiency
(c) it saves advantage for situations where you actually have a particular advantage on something

 

[Elon Tusk]

You know what I would like more than the "advantage on checks" bit would be something like:
- When you use your whip as a tool to manipulate an object or perform a stunt, you can add your proficiency bonus to any relevant checks.

I like that because:
(a) it doesn't suggest that the feat is required to do that kind of thing; if anything, it suggests that anyone can do it, you just do it proficiently
(b) it comports with the standard rules for tools and proficiency
(c) it saves advantage for situations where you actually have a particular advantage on something

I like that:

Lasher
You master the whip as both a weapon and a tool. You gain the following benefits when using it: 
• You can shove with your whip using its reach. If you succeed, you can either knock the creature prone or pull it 5 feet toward you.
• On a successful whip attack, you can choose to attempt to disarm the target instead of doing damage, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it’s holding. The target must make a Strength saving throw against your attack roll. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. You can pull the object 5 feet toward you.
• You can attack, shove, or disarm with your whip as a bonus action.
• When you use your whip as a tool to manipulate an object or perform a stunt, you can add your proficiency bonus to any relevant checks.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Does that mean it adds proficiency twice if you already have proficiency? If so....yeah I can see that working.

What that still leaves out is things like grabbing something off a table, or opening a door, because neither of those things generally requires a check. And I struggle with wording to add it, except as fluff.

 

[Elon Tusk]

Does that mean it adds proficiency twice if you already have proficiency? If so....yeah I can see that working.

What that still leaves out is things like grabbing something off a table, or opening a door, because neither of those things generally requires a check. And I struggle with wording to add it, except as fluff.

So add double your proficiency bonus (if you are proficient with a whip)?

Lasher
You master the whip as both a weapon and a tool. You gain the following benefits when using it:
• You can shove with your whip using its reach. If you succeed, you can either knock the creature prone or pull it 5 feet toward you.
• On a successful whip attack, you can choose to attempt to disarm the target instead of doing damage, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it’s holding. The target must make a Strength saving throw against your attack roll. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. You can pull the object 5 feet toward you.
• You can attack, shove, or disarm with your whip as a bonus action.
• When you use your whip as a tool to manipulate an object or perform a stunt, you can add your proficiency bonus (or double your proficiency bonus if you have proficiency with a whip) to any relevant checks.

 

[jaelis]

Does that mean it adds proficiency twice if you already have proficiency? If so....yeah I can see that working.

I wouldn't but it's up to you.

What that still leaves out is things like grabbing something off a table, or opening a door, because neither of those things generally requires a check. And I struggle with wording to add it, except as fluff.

I would myself require a check to do those kinds of things with a whip.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Anyone has advantage when doing this?

Anyone can make a Str(Athletics) or Dex(Acrobatics) "attempt". If an anchor point is available and the DM judges that the action being attempted would benefit from the presence of a rope or similar aid to climbing/swinging etc, granting advantage on the check would be reasonable.
The presence of a feat that grants this specific ability however, would imply that you can't do it without that feat.

A grapple says "Using a free hand" and don't see any exception from whips.
A shove is more controversial since it uses the phrase the creature "must be within your reach."
But a reach weapon "adds 5 feet to your reach when you attack with it," and shoving is considered a "special melee attack."

So you're using a melee weapon that grants reach when you attack with it and you're making a special melee attack. Not really seeing a problem.
Rewarding the free hand for grappling, if we have to get that picky, does it specify that you have to touch the target, or could you use the free hand to help control the whip for example?

Oh, sure, a generous DM might allow you to do this even without the feat. But the DM might just as likely never allow you to. The Feat would be a nudge to the DM to be generous.

The feat would be a nudge to the DM to not be generous: to not allow advantage for using a whip or rope or such on Athletics or similar checks unless you had the feat.

On a more general note, your logic would suggest that no mechanic should ever contain the phrase "at the DM's discretion" because everything is already at the DM's discretion. Doesn't the wording for the Hide action say something about this (or is that only the Sage Advice clarification?). So...to be a bit facetious for a moment...maybe we should just take Hide out of the rules since clearly DMs already have the discretion to allow characters to hide.

How is that my logic? You're the one who wrote that phrase, not me.

Now if you want to get more specific than "Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) attempts" we can start specifying examples where the whip would only be useful if you had unusual training in it perhaps.

Link to the YouTube video of you doing this?

I would most certainly not be considered to have proficiency in Whip, but if you can point out somewhere suitable near me and lend me a whip, I'm pretty sure that I could demonstrate how using a long, flexible tool makes some athletic tasks easier.

As Tusk points out, using a reach weapon doesn't extend YOUR reach, just the weapon's.

You're using the weapon to make the attack.

 

[Elon Tusk]

Anyone can make a Str(Athletics) or Dex(Acrobatics) "attempt". If an anchor point is available and the DM judges that the action being attempted would benefit from the presence of a rope or similar aid to climbing/swinging etc, granting advantage on the check would be reasonable.
The presence of a feat that grants this specific ability however, would imply that you can't do it without that feat.

I think this debate may be moot with revision using proficiency.

So you're using a melee weapon that grants reach when you attack with it and you're making a special melee attack. Not really seeing a problem.
Rewarding the free hand for grappling, if we have to get that picky, does it specify that you have to touch the target, or could you use the free hand to help control the whip for example?
You're using the weapon to make the attack.

Regarding using a whip in a normal grapple (without this feat), I'm reading it as: you use a free hand to grab an opponent so no weapon is involved.

Shove, as stated earlier can be (has been elsewhere) is debatable; I'm reading "within your reach" to mean the PC, not his/her weapon, but can see there could be other interpretations. Anyway, the feat I wrote not only allows for the whip's reach reach, it changes pushing to pulling.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

What that still leaves out is things like grabbing something off a table, or opening a door, because neither of those things generally requires a check. And I struggle with wording to add it, except as fluff.

I'm AFB, but maybe have a look at what the Arcane Trickster can do with Mage Hand compared with what the spell normally allows you to do?

Regarding using a whip in a normal grapple (without this feat), I'm reading it as: you use a free hand to grab an opponent so no weapon is involved.

I do not think that that is the only interpretation as to how you might use the free hand though.

In terms of other alternatives: going with the usual strengths of a whip might be one direction. A straight "when using a whip, you may add an additional 5ft to your reach" perhaps.

 

[Elon Tusk]

I do not think that that is the only interpretation as to how you might use the free hand though.

As I said that is the way I read it (leaving room for other possibilities).
I think saying you need a free hand to grapple and not intending that free hand be used to grapple is a stretch.

In terms of other alternatives: going with the usual strengths of a whip might be one direction. A straight "when using a whip, you may add an additional 5ft to your reach" perhaps.

Do you mean your reach for a weapon attack with it so the whip is (magically?) growing 5 feet longer?

 

[Guest 6801328]

So add double your proficiency bonus (if you are proficient with a whip)?

No, I meant in the case of doing something like Acrobatics in which you already have proficiency.