Whips & Improved Trip

[Nim]

Yup.

off hand
A character's weaker or less dexterous hand (usually the left). An attack made with the off hand incurs a -4 penalty on the attack roll. In addition, only one-half of a character's Strength bonus may be added to damage dealt with a weapon held in the off hand.

If you're right-handed, and you hit someone with a sword held in your left hand, you take a -4 and half Str to damage.

-Hyp.

Cool. I figured it had to be -4, based on the pattern in the TWF chart, but I'd never noticed a specific rule for it.

 

[Nyarlathotep]

Excellent, thanks for your help!

 

[Nim]

Let's say you use a primary attack with the whip to trip, and the rapier is your off-hand weapon. If your answer to the longsword/shortsword example is that the shortsword can only be used for off-hand attacks, and not for main iterative attacks, then the rapier cannot be used to follow up with Improved Trip. If your answer is that both longsword and shortsword can be used for main iterative attacks in the same round, then the rapier can be used to follow up.

-Hyp.

Right. That's why, for my example, I used a character who was only eligible for one attack. At that point, attacking 'as if the attack hadn't happened' is basically starting with a clean slate.

Still, as I said, I don't think that's what the feat is meant for. Now (and venturing into house-rules territory) it WOULD be nice if there were a way to accomplish this, perhaps with an additional feat that takes Improved Trip as a pre-req. It'd need some further benefit in addition, probably, to be worthwhile. But using a whip or net to trip/entangle someone and then following up with the other weapon is a very duelist / gladiator style of fighting that could be quite cool for some character.

 

[Saeviomagy]

That being said, he does not get to make a 5' step in between his trip attempt and the free attack granted by Improved Trip. You may take a 5' in between separate attacks in a full attack action, but not in between a normal attack and the attack granted by Cleave. Similarly, you may not take a 5' step in betweeen a normal attack and the attack granted by IT.

Where exactly does that ruling come from? Cleave has a specific "you may not take your 5' step between the original attack and the cleave" written into the feat. I don't see the same under improved trip...

 

[Saeviomagy]

Still, as I said, I don't think that's what the feat is meant for. Now (and venturing into house-rules territory) it WOULD be nice if there were a way to accomplish this, perhaps with an additional feat that takes Improved Trip as a pre-req. It'd need some further benefit in addition, probably, to be worthwhile. But using a whip or net to trip/entangle someone and then following up with the other weapon is a very duelist / gladiator style of fighting that could be quite cool for some character.

There is a weapon-style feat in complete warrior (IIRC) that does this for a character using a net and a trident: If you hit with the net, you get to 5' step and take a free attack.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Where exactly does that ruling come from? Cleave has a specific "you may not take your 5' step between the original attack and the cleave" written into the feat. I don't see the same under improved trip...

It doesn't say you can take it. Given that, however, I may take that statement back:

If you move no actual distance in a round (commonly because you have swapped your move for one or more equivalent actions), you can take one 5-foot step either before, during, or after the action.

You can take a 5' step during an action, though I'm not entirely certain how this would interface with the rest of 3.X's MtG-like resolution system. Obviously, it's there to allow you to take 5' steps while full attacking (or performing some other full round action). It appears that it would also allow the 5' to be taken in between the "two halves" of a standard action just as easily.

 

[Zandel]

Now throw quickdraw into the fray so the chgar can attack to trip with thew whip then drop it for the rapier at no penalty.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Where exactly does that ruling come from? Cleave has a specific "you may not take your 5' step between the original attack and the cleave" written into the feat. I don't see the same under improved trip...

The followup attack is 'immediately'. If you trip, then take a 5' step, 'immediately' has been and gone, and you missed it...

-Hyp.

 

[Artoomis]

The followup attack is 'immediately'. If you trip, then take a 5' step, 'immediately' has been and gone, and you missed it...

-Hyp.

Reasonable, and the way I would rule. I think the rules support the other interpretation, but that's not the way I would go as I think it's a bit of a stretch and Cleave sets a precedent here that I think should be followed.

 

[darthkilmor]

Could you use the whip to disarm the opponent with the free attack?

Also, dont you get an AoO when the opponent stands up?, you could trip them again and get another attack?