Whips in General and the Lasher PrCl?

[Thanee]

Close Combat
At first level, the Lasher can attack a foe in a threatened area with a whip or whip dagger without drawing an attack of opportunity.

Uhhh... that means YOU do not provoke AoO, while inside a threatened area!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Xarlen]

But you still threaten the area for flanking.

 

[Thanee]

Lashers only threaten the 5' area around them, not more.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

Also people fail to realize that you receive a -4 penalty to hit a prone target with a ranged weapon. Therefore Improved Trip is less useful to a lasher than to the rest of the party.

 

[melkoriii]

In the errata for S&F for the Lasher’s “Sneak attack” it says: After “(whether he actually has a Dexterity bonus or not),” insert: or when the Lasher flanks the target.

Now the ability “Whip lash” only says the Lasher can make AoO with his whip/dagger in 5’ as if it was a melee weapon. (Note it does not state you threaten any space)
Close Combat just negates the AoO you take for using a ranged weapon in a threatened space.

But the errata says you can flank with a Whip/dagger but dose not say any range 5’ or 15’.

<Opinion>
To me a Whip is a melee weapon that “acts” like a ranged weapon, but is still a melee weapon. That is the only way you could make Disarm/Trip attacks with it and still provoke AoO’s (Disarm) and counter trips (Trip) as you can’t with ranged weapons.

To me a whip would defiantly threaten a 15’ range if that’s how long he whip is. I have used bull whips before and when Im circling for a crack NO ONE would want to get near me and the range is about 15’ (12’ whip plus 2’ for my arm) I can crack the whip at any point with a flip of the wrist.

This is to me how they intended the Whip and Lasher to work. You can only make AoO in 5’ for balancing reasons but have a range of 15’ for flanking/sneak attacks.
</Opinion>

 

[melkoriii]

Also people fail to realize that you receive a -4 penalty to hit a prone target with a ranged weapon. Therefore Improved Trip is less useful to a lasher than to the rest of the party.

This is another place were the whip should be treated as a melee weapon. Its just stupid to give Improved Trip when you get penalied to use the added ability. Now if they just wanted to make it easyer to trip with they could have given a bonus to triping attacks.

 

[melkoriii]

Just looking at other weapons and I se that a Spiked Chain is a melee weapon yet it is just like a whip just made out of mettle.

 

[Thanee]

Yup, but rulewise, the spiked chain is a melee weapon, while the whip is classified as a ranged weapon.

Logicwise, the spiked chain is one big piece of crap!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Pax]

One of my players is a Fighter/Lasher, he sets up some really nice flanking positions with his 15ft reach, for the two rogues in the party.

With the Lashers Improved Trip, every attack starts with a Trip attempt(Touch Attack) and is followed up with a free attack at +4.

You gotta like that

You cannot flank with a whip, it is a Ranged weapon.

As a GM, I woudl allow the Lasher to flank creatures if they stood in melee range -- IOW, if they could also Threaten the space the enemy was in. But that would be purely a house rule.

 

[melkoriii]

You cannot flank with a whip, it is a Ranged weapon.

As a GM, I woudl allow the Lasher to flank creatures if they stood in melee range -- IOW, if they could also Threaten the space the enemy was in. But that would be purely a house rule.

Yet in the S&F errata it states for the Lasher’s “Sneak attack” ability to say: After “(whether he actually has a Dexterity bonus or not),” insert: or when the Lasher flanks the target.
And the Lasher’s Sneak Attack ability can only be used with a Whip or Whip dagger.