D&D 3E/3.5 Who created the Sorcerer?

[MoonSong]

Ok, after hours of googling, turns out the designer who created the sorcerer was Skip Williams?

I'm confused...

Dungeons & Dragons

 

[cbwjm]

Maybe they didn't actually have disdain for the sorcerer and instead you're just projecting that upon them.

 

[MoonSong]

Maybe they didn't actually have disdain for the sorcerer and instead you're just projecting that upon them.

Skip Williams is the main designer behind Tome and Blood -kind of infamous for wizard favoritism-, and later Complete Mage, this book inparticular not only gives wizards a lot of perks over sorcerer, (at least it has Rapid Metamagic) it also has this in character quote by Mialee dissing sorcerers.

"Sorcery? Bah. Anyone can pick up a brush and paint, call themselves an artist even. But only through years of dedication and study can you create a true masterpiece. A sorcerer is like a child with paints, barely understanding what they are doing. I have mastered the art."

And it is right on the spot describing sorcerers alternate features in this book. (Why not give a positive quote for sorcerers in the spot on the book about sorcerers?, The wizard got half a page with purple prose on how beautiful the experience of writing on a spellbook is in the very same book!)

In addition to this quote

"Sorcerers? Dilettantes. Why dabble in parlor tricks when you can become a master of the battlefield?"
—Ferno the warmage

Also he purportedly said things like "if players complain about sorcerer, they should have played a wizard instead" to defend giving extra slots per day to wizards, and "how they aren't a proper casting class". (To be fair though, I haven't seen the actual quotes in context)

 

[HomegrownHydra]

Ok, after hours of googling, turns out the designer who created the sorcerer was Skip Williams?

I'm confused...

Dungeons & Dragons

Where does it say that he personally designed it? It sounds like a collaborative approach, which is what I would expect from modern D&D.

 

[QuentinGeorge]

Where does it say that he personally designed it? It sounds like a collaborative approach, which is what I would expect from modern D&D.

Skip Williams was also a designer of Dragonlance: Fifth Age, which had "sorcerer" as it main arcane caster. I've always thought there were some elements of SAGA that made its way into 3rd edition D&D.

 

[cbwjm]

Skip Williams is the main designer behind Tome and Blood -kind of infamous for wizard favoritism-, and later Complete Mage, this book inparticular not only gives wizards a lot of perks over sorcerer, (at least it has Rapid Metamagic) it also has this in character quote by Mialee dissing sorcerers.



And it is right on the spot describing sorcerers alternate features in this book. (Why not give a positive quote for sorcerers in the spot on the book about sorcerers?, The wizard got half a page with purple prose on how beautiful the experience of writing on a spellbook is in the very same book!)

In addition to this quote


Also he purportedly said things like "if players complain about sorcerer, they should have played a wizard instead" to defend giving extra slots per day to wizards, and "how they aren't a proper casting class". (To be fair though, I haven't seen the actual quotes in context)

I don't think the in-character comments can be taken to mean much, all it is, is flavourful comments from characters known for their high intellect and academic learning acting as snobs, I wouldn't take that as the designers holding the sorcerer in any kind of disdain.

I'd have to see the quotes proper (granted, this might now be somewhat impossible) but it sounds to me that they had a set purpose for the sorcerer from the link you posted, spell knowledge limited to a tight group of spells. They aren't a "proper" casting class only in that they don't expand on that spell knowledge via adding spells to their spellbook in the way that a wizard can. I wouldn't be surprised if that's what it was in response to, people complaining about wanting more spells known for their sorcerer.

 

[MoonSong]

I don't think the in-character comments can be taken to mean much, all it is, is flavourful comments from characters known for their high intellect and academic learning acting as snobs, I wouldn't take that as the designers holding the sorcerer in any kind of disdain.

It is also the fact that it is right next to the sorcerer alternate class features. The one spot in the book dedicated to the sorcerer is dissing them. It would be different if this quote was next to the wizard, or or if next to the wizard there was a similar quote by Hennet. But it isn't, instead there's only love to wizard in the many pages dedicated exclusively to them.

 

[Richards]

I would tend to believe many wizards were likely actually jealous of sorcerers. Here they are, studying for hours, poring over dusty tomes, trying to master how to cast a simple spell, when it all just comes naturally to the sorcerer. Add on the fact that a sorcerer can cast more spells per day than a wizard of the same level, and the jealousy only increases. It's not particularly surprising, then, that those wizards would project this jealousy into scorn - better to look down upon sorcerers in disdain than to pine hopelessly to be one, knowing you just don't have what it takes for spellcasting to come that naturally to you.

Johnathan

 

[Shardstone]

Can I get a link to what this last thread was? I'm unsure of what is being referenced but would like to read it.

 

[Minigiant]

Maybe they didn't actually have disdain for the sorcerer and instead you're just projecting that upon them.

In 3.5 it's more of a sorta Hanlon's razor thing.

It's malice, apathy, incompetence, or inexperience that caused sorcerer to be in it's condition. I'll give the designers the benefit of a doubt. Well some of them.