D&D 4E Who else is going to be a deserter when 4e comes out?

[Aldarc]

I just hope that 4E learns from the success, flavor, and flexibility of d20 Modern, Grim Tales, Arcana Unearthed, and Iron Heroes.

 

[Felon]

I just hope that 4E learns from the success, flavor, and flexibility of d20 Modern, Grim Tales, Arcana Unearthed, and Iron Heroes.

Nah, it'll be more like a MMOG than ever, and less like a good fantasy novel. It'll be more over-the-top, with more power, and less ability for the DM to structure adventures with established boundaries and consequences (which are kinda important to any game). It's not high fantasy, dude, it's extreme fantasy!

That's cynical, but it is the trend that D&D has moving towards for years. Eberron's a pretty bold statement about how unimportant it is for the game to be even remotely accessible to new blood coming into D&D fresh from seeing the LotR trilogy or having read the canons of Howard or Leiber.

But hey, I'll buy it.

 

[Barak]

Bah. Ranger's weird. He goes on and on about how WOTC is adopting too quick a change-over of editions when in truth they only ever published one, which is 3rd edition.

"But what about 3.5, Barak?"

Relax kids. 3.5 isn't a new edition. It's a revision. I, myself, own no "3.5" core books. None. And yet I do own supplements and adventures published after "3.5" came out. And guess what? They work just fine with my 3.0 core books. That's right, they do.

In a few (rare) cases, there's adaptions to be made. And, well, I have the SRD and the 'Net at large for that. But it's nowhere major enough to be called an "update".

So one edition in going on 6 years? That ain't bad.

 

[Aldarc]

Nah, it'll be more like a MMOG than ever, and less like a good fantasy novel. It'll be more over-the-top, with more power, and less ability for the DM to structure adventures with established boundaries and consequences (which are kinda important to any game). It's not high fantasy, dude, it's extreme fantasy!

Sad, but most likely true.

That's cynical, but it is the trend that D&D has moving towards for years. Eberron's a pretty bold statement about how unimportant it is for the game to be even remotely accessible to new blood coming into D&D fresh from seeing the LotR trilogy or having read the canons of Howard or Leiber.

I think Eberron was more for those gamers who have been playing "Tolkien D&D" for so long that it had gone stale. And when I look at D&D, not a great deal of it seems that close to Tolkien. Do not get me wrong, a great deal of material is heavily inspired by Tolkien, but the super-high magic levels (spellcasting and magic items), the classes, and the abilities are something incredibly different than Tolkien. It would be nice to see an actual Tolkien sort of world, not so much a rip-off world, but one that draws from Anglo-Saxon, Nordic, and Frankish myths, stories, and history.

But another problem with gearing D&D towards Tolkien D&D is that there is plenty of other fantasy that is not Tolkien, despite the fact that most modern fantasy is rehashed Tolkien, which draws not on new materials and ideas, but on Middle-Earth itself. What about the fantasy based upon the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Earthsea, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Wheel of Time, Conan, The Farseer Trilogy, Ancient Civilizations (Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Mesopotamia, Ancient China, Mesoamerica)? Is D&D generic enough to provide players and DMs with what they want in a world?

Of course not, which is why D&D needs to have the flexibility that d20 Modern laid the groundwork for and Grim Tales improved.

 

[the black knight]

Bah. Ranger's weird. He goes on and on about how WOTC is adopting too quick a change-over of editions when in truth they only ever published one, which is 3rd edition.

"But what about 3.5, Barak?"

Relax kids. 3.5 isn't a new edition. It's a revision. I, myself, own no "3.5" core books. None. And yet I do own supplements and adventures published after "3.5" came out. And guess what? They work just fine with my 3.0 core books. That's right, they do.

In a few (rare) cases, there's adaptions to be made. And, well, I have the SRD and the 'Net at large for that. But it's nowhere major enough to be called an "update".

So one edition in going on 6 years? That ain't bad.

And I assume you are using the original splatbooks as well? I ask because anyone using the current complete series would, in essence, be making the conversion to 3.5, and you of course would not be doing that, right?

 

[Barak]

AU (or AE, I guess) is loosely based on Thomas Covenant. Conan got it's own D20 game. Lanhkmar is covered as well, as is Elric of Melnibone. Games of Throne? Check..

It's not just Tolkien, although D&D is the biggest.

Edit:

And I assume you are using the original splatbooks as well? I ask because anyone using the current complete series would, in essence, be making the conversion to 3.5, and you of course would not be doing that, right?

Hmm. Thinking about it, I have one player using some spells from Defenders of the Faith. That's it for splat books/complete books.

I do have some stuff from Races of Stone, but as there was nothing similar in 3.0...

 

[Aldarc]

AU (or AE, I guess) is loosely based on Thomas Covenant. Conan got it's own D20 game. Lanhkmar is covered as well, as is Elric of Melnibone. Games of Throne? Check..

I know that these other games exist, why should these games exist to supply loads of mechanics if D&D in its standard cannot accomodate for them? I think that the setup of d20 Modern & Grim Tales provides the greatest amount of flexibility to accomodate for all of these game types.

 

[Barak]

Mostly? Races.

That's the biggest point, I guess. Also, a too-generic system is great at nothing, and "alright" at everything. Who wants that?

Edit:

To clarify, it would be like having bard as the only class. Sure, he can fight, cast offensive and healing/defensive spells, and has thieve's skills.. But no.

 

[frankthedm]

If the edges of the system are not as sanded down as 3.N I'll pick it up. If on the other hand, dispelled flight still lets you float safely down and a bad teleport mearly injures you, then wotc can keep thier crap.

 

[Scribble]

It's only bloated if one is such a compulsive completist that one feels they have to buy and use everything produced for the game. The core three are the only books one really needs.

Just to be snarky... you could probably get away with just the first two.. And design your own monsters.

I'm in the I'll wait till it happens camp. If it's good, sure... If not, probably not... Or maybe just the "core" rules. Just cause I like collecting games.