D&D General Who else was resistant to Eberron for awhile before falling for it?

[earthsea_wizard]

I remember conversations like this around the time it came out and for years after. I'm one of those people whose first interaction with Dungeons & Dragons was the Dragonlance novels in the late 90s (sub in the 1980s or Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk etc. depending on the person). This was not long after having read the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Quickly after Dragonlance it was into Forgotten Realms. I like Larry Elmore, Caldwell, Parkinson etc. I've ran and played games in Greyhawk and Faerun and dabbled in the Wilderlands. D&D is/was something very specific to me. Many of us have a similar story, I'm sure.

Some elements of Eberron appealed to me from the beginning, and I've always been a fan of fantasy genre elements that weren't Tolkien-esque when it came to hobbies other than D&D. I played the Final Fantasy games and similar JRPGs throughout the 90s, 6 through 10 being my favorite. I loved Nausicaa and Ghost in the Shell and Akira and Princess Mononoke and Full Metal Alchemist. I read Dune, Discworld Ursula K. Le Guin, Hellboy, His Dark Materials and Game of Thrones. Moebius is among my favorite artists. The original Star Wars movies were huge for me as a kid in the early 90s. I could go on.

In short, there is a lot there that should easily translate to an enjoyment of Eberron from the get go. I have even been aware for almost the entire time I've been into D&D of the gonzo, pulpy nature of the early D&D game and how Eberron is entirely in the spirit of the game as it was envisioned in the 1970s (big difference in the application and execution, I know, but the spirit is there, the rest is semantics). No surprise given who Keith Baker cites as many of his favorite authors (Howard, Vance, Moorcock, Burroughs) and the fact that he started playing in the 1970s. But this knowledge still fell flat for me on a personal level when it came to expanding my campaigns beyond the borders of Tolkien, Greyhawk, The Realms and so forth.

As I've gotten older, however, my chokehold on a specific perception of what D&D should be is beginning to change, especially as I look back over more recent years and my reading habits. Every 5 years or so the type of fantasy and science fiction I look for diverges more and more from those early years, which really leaves nothing but nostalgia for me to lean on when it comes to D&D. But I recently began to really wonder, what if I reach for all of the other fandoms and genres and aesthetics and titles that I've loved over the years and incorporated those into my D&D. What would that look like? I'm not one to spin up my own setting, so I started looking around again at settings that I had overlooked.

Eberron stood out like a sore thumb, and I can't seem to shake it. So I have begun preparing a campaign for my group (thankfully mostly the same group for decades now, and we still play 3.5, so that makes it even easier to use the Eberron books). Finding this gallery of the original concept art really helped here, as it has an otherworldly/alien feel that did not quite make it into the core books. It reminds me of Nausicaa, Star Wars, Morrowind and Moebius: I got hold of a Wizards of the Coast - Eberron Pre-Production Style Guide (circa 2002-2003) Check out the evolution of the setting! - Album on Imgur

I recently saw this quote from Rob Kuntz (co-DM of Gary Gygax's Greyhawk campaign and author of some of the early D&D supplements). What he says here really rings true of Eberron for me, and reminds me that I have likely missed out on a lot of good stuff over the years due to my hard coded vision of Dungeons & Dragons (and fantasy, sci-fi etc as a whole to a degree). I don't put the founders of the game on any sort of pedestal, but the following has a lot of merit to me and is relevant here:

But, “Why machines,” you ask? Gary and I would have simply answered back then, “Why not?” This was a time when the literature we read was a mix of many subjects and genres: fantasy, horror, noir fiction, history, military history, science and science fiction. Therein lies a clue to the richness of our adventures, a richness which I often feel is now partly lost to succeeding generations of DMs and gamers. And that is: A story is a story, no matter how you wrench the mechanic to make it fit into a game. Gary and I were well read storytellers. Our players were well read gamers. Storytelling and story “acceptance” was a natural state between its then participant groups.

Even though our genre inclusive game experience was soon to be fragmented into several RPG types—with medieval fantasy claiming sole rights in the original version of the game--this initial segmentation was a weighed choice made for D&D’s immediate commercial introduction only. We had previously felt that the game had more range and infinitely more possibilities than what the lone S&S element produced.But, “Why machines,” you ask? Gary and I would have simply answered back then, “Why not?” This was a time when the literature we read was a mix of many subjects and genres: fantasy, horror, noir fiction, history, military history, science and science fiction. Therein lies a clue to the richness of our adventures, a richness which I often feel is now partly lost to succeeding generations of DMs and gamers. And that is: A story is a story, no matter how you wrench the mechanic to make it fit into a game. Gary and I were well read storytellers. Our players were well read gamers. Storytelling and story “acceptance” was a natural state between its then participant groups.Even though our genre inclusive game experience was soon to be fragmented into several RPG types—with medieval fantasy claiming sole rights in the original version of the game--this initial segmentation was a weighed choice made for D&D’s immediate commercial introduction only. We had previously felt that the game had more range and infinitely more possibilities than what the lone S&S element produced.

While perusing the DMG’s sections for including different genres within the expanding game, one does not feel that these are hurried attachments of after-matter by EGG. To the contrary, EGG’s up front insistence of Barsoom’s relevance in his original foreword had already paved the way for Hiero’s Journey in Appendix N. This “addenda” was in fact the natural outgrowth of both our realized views as experienced through play, 1972 onward. While EGG honored Jack Vance with his Dirdir level, I did the same for C. A. Smith & Lovecraft with my Lost City of the Elders (which more recent convention-players have experienced and where mutated creatures and hovering metal devices were seen and fled from).

After D&D’s release, Gary and I continued to experiment with SF and other genres, but this time by way of both play and through publication: We were to co-create Expedition to the Barrier Peaks; we encouraged the creation of Metamorphosis Alpha and adventured upon the Starship Warden; there could soon be found my mysterious and wily visitor from the stars known as Cosmodius that Ward’s Bombadil contested with for his vast knowledge of technology; select items of a SF nature were placed at key locations in both our castles; and there would be some inclusions of M.A.R. Barker’s Tekumel “magic” and creatures in the Bottle City level and upon the outdoor. I created many SF-variant creatures and sluiced them into our city, one by the name of “modern man.”

Further, horror would often closely meld with SF and S&S elements to promote a cosmic terror by way of alien locales, their technologies and an ancient, arcane magic, all of which was realized through play in secreted settings (ala A. Merritt, C. A. Smith or Lovecraft). One such place was Fomalhaut, yet another large adventure I designed to keep the adventurers quite curious of their newfound surroundings just prior to terrifying them. As you can note, EGG and I were very diligent in keeping our adventures, and the adventurers, fresh.

These were not meaningless contrivances by us; and neither of us lacked the creative verve for producing solely mundane or earthly elements or situations. We knew the players would not only be intrigued through such imaginative story matter, but they would be wondrous about where it derived from. Through these relations we were promoting story by introducing several elements that good storytellers use: intrigue and suspense.

Because of our openness to elements that could be easily fitted into any storyline Gary and I never lacked for stimulating or compelling story matter. We were both willing and able to include whatever it took to keep the story interesting for the players. And that’s the real answer to the question, “Why machines?” Just as important, and from a design view, this kept us constantly fresh as DMs, as we were always alert to the possibilities of creative inclusion of any type of material, however varied in content.

So. Now is the time to strap on your gear as EGG did back in 1973! And forget your prayers. For upon this level there reside no gods of flesh…

Rob Kuntz 10 October 2010

Good stuff. There is an argument to be made that if I do have a certain "feel" or "aesthetic" or genre assumption in mind for D&D, then it is fine if that is what my D&D is even if I expand my genre horizons in other areas. D&D can be my tolkien/dragonlance/conan/whatever ripoff. But the above argument seems to be the one winning out for me right now and Eberron feels exciting and full of adventure potential and like a rewarding, challenging place to run games. And yeah, some might argue that it isn't even that far from traditional D&D, but in many ways it is for me, but seems to be a very nice stepping stone (even if I end up staying there!). Though a small part of me still feels like I am abandoning something that was special to me and perhaps speaks to a time period in which gaming was a certain way for me.

Did anyone else have a similar journey?

 

[payn]

IDK, if resistant is the right word. Id go more with disinterested. Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) actually really warmed me up to the setting.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

IDK, if resistant is the right word. Id go more with disinterested. Dungeons and Dragons Online (DDO) actually really warmed me up to the setting.

I actually played that in 2008 and quickly dropped it. However, I've loaded it up again since re-discovering and interest in Eberron. Turns out I still have that old account as well.

What were you into setting-wise before Eberron?

 

[payn]

I actually played that in 2008 and quickly dropped it. However, I've loaded it up again since re-discovering and interest in Eberron. Turns out I still have that old account as well.

What were you into setting-wise before Eberron?

I had a bunch of runs with Forgettable Realms but during that particular period I was heavily homebrewing. I didnt RPG for a few years while I played DDO. Afterwards, I really got into Golarion and PF1.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I had a bunch of runs with Forgettable Realms but during that particular period I was heavily homebrewing. I didnt RPG for a few years while I played DDO. Afterwards, I really got into Golarion and PF1.

Golarion seems great as well! How do you feel about it in regards to Eberron? Would you run Golarion even without PF rules?

 

[pukunui]

I didn’t like the idea of Eberron when it was new. I didn’t want robots and trains and magic guns in my medievalesque fantasy!

But it has grown on me to the point that a) I am running an ongoing campaign set in Eberron now and b) I am fearful WotC is going to “ruin” the setting by modernizing it even more in the upcoming Eberron book.

 

[earthsea_wizard]

I didn’t like the idea of Eberron when it was new. I didn’t want robots and trains and magic guns in my medievalesque fantasy!

But it has grown on me to the point that a) I am running an ongoing campaign set in Eberron now and b) I am fearful WotC is going to “ruin” the setting by modernizing it even more in the upcoming Eberron book.

I have been looking at the 3.5 books (I even bought a handful between 2004 and 2006) and comparing them to the newer stuff I have seen. Not quite the same, especially the art. What is the new book they are coming out with?

 

[pukunui]

I have been looking at the 3.5 books (I even bought a handful between 2004 and 2006) and comparing them to the newer stuff I have seen. Not quite the same, especially the art. What is the new book they are coming out with?

Eberron: Forge of the Artificer. It was supposed to come out last month, but a production error has delayed it to December. It’s designed to complement Rising from the Last War, not replace it, by updating dragonmarks, the artificer, Eberron species and such to the revised rules and providing new tools for DMs, like Eberron-specific bastion options.

I do not like the art nouveau stylings in the previewed art. They’ve changed the way airships look, and it looks like they’ve changed the way warforged look too.

I am (mostly) happy with Rising plus Keith’s two books, Exploring Eberron and Chronicles of Eberron. I have some of the older 3.5e books in PDF (purchased during DMs Guild sales). Lots of material to work with!

 

[Azzy]

When Eberron first came out with 3.5e, I was not interested in it at all (I was Greyhawking it at the time). It wasn't until I read the pdf of Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron that (that preceded Rising from the Last War) that I fell in love with it.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

My reluctance with Eberron came from primarily being overwhelmed by the setting. I run into that issue with a lot of settings.

What it took to get over was having a friend who really loved the setting explain that it does so much, you really need to decide what kind of story you want to tell first, and get focus that way. That's how the game I ran became all about Sharn beat cops being assigned crappy duties in the city