Who got Psionics in my Dnd?

[Rechan]

To reiterate Arkhandus's point, many other RPG systems that do fantasy have spell-points or spell-pools or mana points to represent spellcasting. D&D is one of the only games with the Vanican "Fire and forget" method.

 

[RFisher]

To reiterate Arkhandus's point, many other RPG systems that do fantasy have spell-points or spell-pools or mana points to represent spellcasting. D&D is one of the only games with the Vanican "Fire and forget" method.

<shrug> D&D’s spell slots is just a fancy spell-point system.

 

[justanobody]

Also, I think another distinction is that while Arcane is very; hocus-pocus in that, it follows much of the *out of thin air* (even with spell-components there is no reasoning behind why those spell components cause such a effect) trait. Psionics on the other hand while it is playing with the frabic of reality it is doing so in a somewhat understandable manner for many of its abilities, it is basically more scientific in lots of literature.

And that right there is where it probably comes to terms with people not wanting it in part of a fantasy setting they are trying to create that is devoid of science like refined steel, gunpowder, etc.

As for Mana as in what Magic uses in drawing from nature, it is everywhere form Chi to DBZ.

But while it can work, you have to look to Final Fantasy and the theme of theme as to what effects that could have over time. If you draw upon the resources of the planet for anything be it coal or "mana", you can deplete them and then what happens?

Everyone dies.

It may be a nice way to end a campaign but leaves a bit to worry about long term playing, and the mana point system is not something I like very much. Getting it from spell-components is close enough for me.

The psionics coming from within had better be real damaging to the body or the surroundings for what it would need to take to perform them.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

And that right there is where it probably comes to terms with people not wanting it in part of a fantasy setting they are trying to create that is devoid of science like refined steel, gunpowder, etc.

Thing is though, D&D isn't just one's person view of fantasy. It encompass many different ones, including ones that have science or pseudoscience. If it didn't many of the things we have seen in D&D since the very beginning would not exist.

Like for myself; Psionics, trains, gunpowder and firearms, reinforced steel structures, etc, etc. all fit nice and neatly into my D&D. So why should my D&D fantasy setting be any less appropriate then another to exist?

If you don't want Psionics or gunpowder or anything else. Then simply don't use it, just like how I don't have Arcane or Divine magic in mine.

Edit: As for mana and spell-points, why can't it simply represent it being draining for the person? So while it doesn't physically damage them or the surroundings it does make them tired and unable to cast more spells?

As for psionics they generally follow in lots of literature the concept of it being very tiring and perhaps causing headaches, nose bleeds, seizures, brain aneurysm, etc, etc.

 

[Dice4Hire]

As for when- Psionics appear in an appendix of optional rules in the 1Ed PHB, along with rules for the Bard and rules for firearms and/or blending in elements of Boot Hill or Gamma World, as I recall.

Yeah, now there are three things I REALLY do not want in my fantasy. I've always rather liked psionics in my fantasy. Thought I must admit it took till the Expanded Psionics Handbook until it made any sense.

 

[justanobody]

Thing is though, D&D isn't just one's person view of fantasy. It encompass many different ones, including ones that have science or pseudoscience. If it didn't many of the things we have seen in D&D since the very beginning would not exist.

Like for myself; Psionics, trains, gunpowder and firearms, reinforced steel structures, etc, etc. all fit nice and neatly into my D&D. So why should my D&D fantasy setting be any less appropriate then another to exist?

If you don't want Psionics or gunpowder or anything else. Then simply don't use it, just like how I don't have Arcane or Divine magic in mine.

Edit: As for mana and spell-points, why can't it simply represent it being draining for the person? So while it doesn't physically damage them or the surroundings it does make them tired and unable to cast more spells?

As for psionics they generally follow in lots of literature the concept of it being very tiring and perhaps causing headaches, nose bleeds, seizures, brain aneurysm, etc, etc.

That is probably one of the major reason it is not part of the core...exactly...

Psionics doesn't fit for everyone, and they don't always want it. The main question is how to make it fit. D&D cannot be a catch-all system for all types of gameplay. That was a big downfall to 3rd and the d20 system. It was too big and allowed for too much that it couldn't hone in on anything.

Sometimes you just have to let another game do things. You cannot make everything fit, like adding mammals eating marbles into Yahtzee. Maybe those hungry hippos eat the dice instead of rolling them...it doesn't always work combining too many things.

As far as the mana points, you are basically making something akin to Vancian psionics. You have these power points based on physical strengths that do what to you as you use them? Can it danger you to use them all and then end up with prone character prime for the picking that other characters will need to heavily gaurd rather than attend to their own duties.

The system just cannot support everything, and that is where it is losing ground by trying to. It is ok to make a new system like 2nd edition tried, but still forcing it all into the same package.

Hasbro doesn't just make one board game, they make a diverse assortment of games to accommodate the largest audiences possible. D&D should take that approach and make different RPGs for the different styles of gaming. They don't have to include everything just so you can say you are playing D&D. It is ok to play a medieval fantasy RPG that isn't D&D, and likewise ok to play a to play a Lovecraft inspired game that doesn't take place in D&D.

Too many of these things are really choking the system throughout the years, and there comes to a point where you have to stop choking it with trying to make everything fit together or you risk killing it. You need to be able to make the best use of what is there, and then accept it is ok to make/play something else rather than falling in love with the name.

Psionics can have a game themed around them, but it needs to be made and promoted.

While getting away from Vancian magic in the form of powers with 4th edition rather than memorized spells as such, why fall back into the same trappings with a mana pool for psionics?

Then you also have to worry about dying from perform your duties during the game? That is where psionics falls apart at the basis of creation to fit within established areas of D&D and the way things work within it. You eyes start bleeding and can no longer see, so what good are you for the rest of the battle from overuse of psy abilities?

And people said the fighter had problems and power/usefullness envy!

 

[Fallen Seraph]

Your right D&D can't be a catchall game for all different kinds of gameplay. But D&D has always been a game that has had a wide-variety of fantasy genres within that, and things like Psionics and technology is part of this wide swatch of fantasy genres.

So the style/gameplay of D&D will always remain true to being a fantasy game. But the particulars of that fantasy is quite diverse and is one of the assets that D&D as a brand and a game has to offer. This I have personally always viewed as one of the strengths of D&D is it doesn't try to just cater to one style of fantasy.

As for the mana pool. I personally wasn't talking about it in relation to 4e, but simply showcasing the different tropes that Psionics and Magic in general has had in literature.

I expect Psionics to continue to follow the 4e-format when it comes out, with its own tweaks of course like all the other Power Sources.

 

[justanobody]

Those wide-variety of genres is what T$R tried and caused so much damage to them and the game in part. Many great little settings, but not enough for each that was well thought out, then you had too much in general that lost focus and the core player base.

Start adding too many classes and you will end up with that again even with limited settings.

I think it needs to remain focused on one style of the genre and grow back when it gets its footing back.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I agree tons of little competing settings are bad. But the way 4e is handling it I think can work quite well, with each new Power Source being brought up in a PHB and with each setting just getting a year to itself.

This means that there are not tons of competing settings or splat-books and the D&D line can nicely continue and expand its fantasy repertoire, there also won't be a over-abundance of classes because there won't be new classes in anything besides Settings and PHBs.

 

[justanobody]

I thought Martial Powers was a book for new classes? PHBs are only to to address new power sources, such as those that would include psionics, and previously un mentioned power sources from earlier PHBs?