D&D 4E Who has rights to BoEF, and are they in on the 4e OGL

[Daniel D. Fox]

I'd say that the BoEF looks more like work of 6th graders who desperately want to show the world how grown-up they are. Magical nipple clamps and Perform (Oral) checks aren't something I or any of my college-age friends want to be associated with.

The Book of Vile Darkness really takes the cake though when it comes to maturely themed, well thought out products to appeal to adult gamers.

The Book of Erotic Fantasy was just...well, ehh. It was overtly sexual, and it's not to say that I shy away from thematically "adult" products. The problem was that it was presented as distastefully as they possibly could. While sex as an element of storybuilding has its place, this book really didn't provide the sort of chunky fluff that was neccessary; it was nothing more than a collection of immature rules for fellatio and poorly-named spells to sexually dominate enemies.

 

[Desdichado]

Out of curiosity, how old were you when you started playing?

Not trying to be snarky, but how old were you when you started playing video games, and what does the market profile for video games look like now?

Not knowing the answer to that, I'll merely say that speaking in general, there's no reason why D&D should adhere to a business model that worked for them in the 80s. If the market is now largely composed of older players, D&D should be designed and marketed to them.

I'll also say as an older player in a group full of older players, that rules for sexy encounters, sexy feats, sexy spells, etc. is very close to the last thing I want in my game. I think Bob, Kevin, Deacon, etc. are great guys but I don't want to roleplay that with them. Ew.

 

[Piratecat]

Not trying to be snarky, but how old were you when you started playing video games, and what does the market profile for video games look like now?

I should have been more specific as to the point I was trying to make. I have no inherent problem with adventures and rules aimed at adults. I think marketing the game to college-age+ overall would be a death knell, however. The vast majority of people I've met first learned to play as kids or teenagers. I've found that it's a lot harder to bring non-gamer adults into the game unless they had played in the past.

Assuming that marketing only to adults results in fewer children playing, then such a strategy would result in a huge player drought later on down the line.

 

[jaerdaph]

About that "Mature" Content...

[rhetorical question]Out of curiosity, exactly when did the term "mature" become a synonym for "sophomoric"? [/rhetorical question]

 

[Wormwood]

I'll also say as an older player in a group full of older players, that rules for sexy encounters, sexy feats, sexy spells, etc. is very close to the last thing I want in my game. I think Bob, Kevin, Deacon, etc. are great guys but I don't want to roleplay that with them. Ew.

I see your "ew" and raise you a *shudder*

 

[Lord Zardoz]

Well, apparently from the description of the new OGL terms, it wouldn't be allowed under "community standards." Which is a totally retarded thing to put into the OGL. Of course we're not allowed to even read the OGL unless we're a company waving $5k. Suck.

It actually is not such a stupid thing to include a community standards type clause, though it is stupid to arbitrarily exclude that content from D&D.

Remember the "Nintendo Seal of Quality"? It served two purposes. The first was to exclude a raft of subpar games from being put onto the original NES machine. The second is that it is a layer of protection for Nintendo in the event of a lawsuit.

There are two games that basically had a hand in bringing down the original Atari. The first was ET, which was slammed together in 8 weeks to make a deadline, and just sucked. The unsold cartriges were put into a landfill. The other game is called Custer's Revenge. It is much lesser known, and I will leave it to you to read the entry on Wikipedia. The subject matter in that game is such a blatant violation of the Grandma rules on this board that I am not sure I can even properly describe it here.

My point is this, however. The D&D game is owned by Wizards, which in turn is owned by Hasbro. The last thing Hasbro wants is to be hit with a lawsuit by some enraged parent that finds out their precious little snowflake is reading pornographic material in a game that is marketed towards an audience of 12 and up. Also, forgetting the sex angle, the standards also keep other things away from the game, such as a D&D adventure that would promote racism by doing something along the lines of making a recognizable ethnic minority the monster to be killed for fun and sport.

I also think the last thing that D&D needs to do right now is find a way to put itself back into the cross hairs of conservative parents groups. Dealing with Patricia Pulling and the "D&D is Satan worship" image was bad enough for the game. It had died down by the time I got into the game, but the echos were still there. I would rather not have my hobby get pulled back into that with a "D&D is Satan worship and pornography". BoEM was a fringe product and an expansion, but zealots wont make that distinction any more than they did for the Grand Theft Auto Hot Coffee scandal when the content was not the sort of thing you would find by accident.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[Desdichado]

I should have been more specific as to the point I was trying to make. I have no inherent problem with adventures and rules aimed at adults. I think marketing the game to college-age+ overall would be a death knell, however. The vast majority of people I've met first learned to play as kids or teenagers. I've found that it's a lot harder to bring non-gamer adults into the game unless they had played in the past.

Assuming that marketing only to adults results in fewer children playing, then such a strategy would result in a huge player drought later on down the line.

It seems to me that in the case of video games, there's games marketed for adults (including teenagers, often) and games marketed at kids, and the overlap between them isn't all that high.

Maybe D&D should have a similar bifurcation. :shrug:

 

[Darkwolf71]

I'll also say as an older player in a group full of older players, that rules for sexy encounters, sexy feats, sexy spells, etc. is very close to the last thing I want in my game. I think Bob, Kevin, Deacon, etc. are great guys but I don't want to roleplay that with them. Ew.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA..........


Oh man, Monster drink out the nose... pain...

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

I'll also say as an older player in a group full of older players, that rules for sexy encounters, sexy feats, sexy spells, etc. is very close to the last thing I want in my game. I think Bob, Kevin, Deacon, etc. are great guys but I don't want to roleplay that with them. Ew.

On that note...

 

[Clavis]

There are two games that basically had a hand in bringing down the original Atari. The first was ET, which was slammed together in 8 weeks to make a deadline, and just sucked. The unsold cartriges were put into a landfill. The other game is called Custer's Revenge. It is much lesser known, and I will leave it to you to read the entry on Wikipedia. The subject matter in that game is such a blatant violation of the Grandma rules on this board that I am not sure I can even properly describe it here.

My brother had bought "Custer's Revenge" when I was a kid. I played it once or twice, but that game actually managed to make sex look boring!

I also think the last thing that D&D needs to do right now is find a way to put itself back into the cross hairs of conservative parents groups. Dealing with Patricia Pulling and the "D&D is Satan worship" image was bad enough for the game. It had died down by the time I got into the game, but the echos were still there. I would rather not have my hobby get pulled back into that with a "D&D is Satan worship and pornography". BoEM was a fringe product and an expansion, but zealots wont make that distinction any more than they did for the Grand Theft Auto Hot Coffee scandal when the content was not the sort of thing you would find by accident.

END COMMUNICATION

I'm on the other side of that argument. Better for D&D to be "evil' than "geeky". I say, piss off the Mothers of America! Things often become cool beacuse they are dangerous and forbidden. American teenagers didn't really start using drugs en masse until after drugs were made illegal. D&D almost died during the 90s, partly beacuse it was neutered to placate sexually-repressed psychos who weren't going to buy the game either way.

If you want kids to buy the game, make it something they don't think their parents want them to have!