Who needs the cleric class?
- Thread starter Darklone
- Start date
Buttercup
Princess of Florin
I like clerics, though I do think they can be overpowered, depending on what domains are chosen. I love playing them, though.
In my games, I have eliminated the Arcane/Divine split. I don't use Wizards or Clerics, but Sorcerers can take any spells they like, as long as those spells fit a theme that is defined at character creation.
In my games, I have eliminated the Arcane/Divine split. I don't use Wizards or Clerics, but Sorcerers can take any spells they like, as long as those spells fit a theme that is defined at character creation.
delericho
Legend
The Cleric is probably the most powerful core class (perhaps matched or slightly surpassed by the Druid), but it suffers a great deal for being seen as a distinctly support class, and a rather boring role. I really hate the notion that every group has to have a Cleric.
What I would do:
1) Increase skill points per level, and make more of the Cleric's spells and class features a bit more dependent on skills. The adjustments to Find Traps and similar spells are a step in the right direction; let's see more of that.
2) Reduce the hit dice to d6 (maybe) and armour proficiency to Medium (but don't assign Spell Failure).
3) Change healing. Preferably, adopt the Reserve Points option from Unearthed Arcana or just refresh the pool after each encounter, and either drop Spontaneous Healing... or just remove the spells entirely.
4) Make more of the Cleric's buff spells Personal. This makes the Cleric less of a support character, and more of a power in his own right.
Those are the mechanical things. However, I would also change the emphasis in the flavour text of the class. Remove mentions of the character healing and buffing other characters, remove talk of them as a support character, and instead play up their role as representatives of their divine powers, and try to make them a much more proactive class.
Also, you know those "Core Beliefs" articles in Dragon? The next "Deities & Demigods" should definately be of that mould, and much less concerned with giving us divine stats that will mostly never be used... and which are incompatible with the stats of any character who might challenge beings of that level anyway.
Alternately, drop the class entirely*. If it's such a chore to "play the Cleric", then it shouldn't really be part of a fun game. But, as long as that class exists, I suspect the mentality that you need a Cleric will always remain.
* In this case, I would recommend replacing it with three or four other classes, each of which fill one aspect of the Cleric's niche, but none of which is a direct Cleric replacement.
What I would do:
1) Increase skill points per level, and make more of the Cleric's spells and class features a bit more dependent on skills. The adjustments to Find Traps and similar spells are a step in the right direction; let's see more of that.
2) Reduce the hit dice to d6 (maybe) and armour proficiency to Medium (but don't assign Spell Failure).
3) Change healing. Preferably, adopt the Reserve Points option from Unearthed Arcana or just refresh the pool after each encounter, and either drop Spontaneous Healing... or just remove the spells entirely.
4) Make more of the Cleric's buff spells Personal. This makes the Cleric less of a support character, and more of a power in his own right.
Those are the mechanical things. However, I would also change the emphasis in the flavour text of the class. Remove mentions of the character healing and buffing other characters, remove talk of them as a support character, and instead play up their role as representatives of their divine powers, and try to make them a much more proactive class.
Also, you know those "Core Beliefs" articles in Dragon? The next "Deities & Demigods" should definately be of that mould, and much less concerned with giving us divine stats that will mostly never be used... and which are incompatible with the stats of any character who might challenge beings of that level anyway.
Alternately, drop the class entirely*. If it's such a chore to "play the Cleric", then it shouldn't really be part of a fun game. But, as long as that class exists, I suspect the mentality that you need a Cleric will always remain.
* In this case, I would recommend replacing it with three or four other classes, each of which fill one aspect of the Cleric's niche, but none of which is a direct Cleric replacement.
I definitely think that the cleric was designed to be slightly overpowered as compared to other classes, simply because most players don't like them. Even with those awesome flame strikes and spiritual weapons, they still burn through their spells hellaciously converting them to cure spells. In practice, I've noticed that the cleric is almost always most effective when he preps nothing but buff spells- he can then wade in with the front-line fighters and keep them going, and maybe drop a bull's strength or something every once in a while. But still, even with all their design, clerics are essentially reduced to combat medics in actual play. They run in and patch up the front-lines fighters and treat the injured after the fight.
Griffith Dragonlake
First Post
My preference is for a non-combat cleric. If a players wishes to play a combat medic, he or she can take some levels in fighter.
I'd start with
BAB: Medium
Hit Die: d6
Good Save: will
Armor: light armor, simple weapons +deity's favored weapon
Spontanteous Domain casting with spells limited to deity's domains + alignment domain+ some spells every cleric should have (e.g., communicating with deity, blessing the faithful, placing curses on enemies, atonement, and planar ally (specific to deity).
Divine Grace: I asked for clerics to get an ability like this in my pre3e questionaire and was disappointed that the paladin got it, but the cleric did not.
add in some more domain related abilities as the cleric progresses: turn undead, lay hands, cure disease, etc.
Deities and Demigods done like Core Beliefs
BAB: Medium
Hit Die: d6
Good Save: will
Armor: light armor, simple weapons +deity's favored weapon
Spontanteous Domain casting with spells limited to deity's domains + alignment domain+ some spells every cleric should have (e.g., communicating with deity, blessing the faithful, placing curses on enemies, atonement, and planar ally (specific to deity).
Divine Grace: I asked for clerics to get an ability like this in my pre3e questionaire and was disappointed that the paladin got it, but the cleric did not.
add in some more domain related abilities as the cleric progresses: turn undead, lay hands, cure disease, etc.
Deities and Demigods done like Core Beliefs
