Who "Owns" Old PC's?

[Lisa Nadazdy]

So someone who doesn't particularly care about, say, Music can decide whether or not Music is 'art'? That just seems a little silly to me...

I don't think most music is "art", but a mass means of selling pablum that has a beat in order to suck money from their pockets. That's besides the point.

It seems that every day I see terms like "art" abused, and all too often in self reference. It's annoying and egotistical to boot. If I went making crank calls to people,even if they were creative, would you call that art? It's a word that's waaaaay overused.

We are surrounded by images every day, and although I'm certain that the designer of the Sony logo considers it art, I'm hard pressed to consider it anything but corporate whoring (BTW, I like Sony's products, so I'm not bashing that).

I don't consider gaming an art, I consider it an entertainment. However, if in the next decade or two I find someone comparing a game session of Mutants & Masterminds to be right up there with the works of Shakespeare, then I'll happily eat my words.

 

[Numion]

This post is art. Just a disclaimer.

 

[HeavyG]

Which of these definitions would art fall in ?


art1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt)
n.
1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

2. a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b. The study of these activities.
c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.

6. a. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
b. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

7. a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).

8. a. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
b. Artful contrivance; cunning.

9. Printing. Illustrative material.




http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=art




All I know is I see my gaming group playing and that ain't art.

 

[Oni]

hmmm
The player creates a PC in a game that he no longer plays in.

The game/campaign world is the province of the DM. Without the DM there is no game.

The DM has the stats of the character. Decides to use him in future as an NPC.

The Former Player doesn't want the DM to use the character because of whatever wierd notion of property.

Answer. Rule 0.

The DM is right.
If the DM is wrong, refer to Rule 0.

Lastly It is the DM's call to include or not include a character from the history of the world that he has fashioned.

There are so many Drizzt clones and wanabees out there (when the books came out and it was still 2nd ed) and I don't see Salvatore coming out of the wood work complaining about intellectual property.


Again if the former player has a problem with it. That;s his problem. if the DM needs to use said character as an NPC , do so.

Rule 0.

One rule to rule them all.

Ah, the old I'm right, your wrong tactic. Sorry, if a DM told me that I would give him a piece of my mind, and then drop him like a bad habit, and at that point it wouldn't even be in regards to a character, it would be about that grade A, over inflated, self-important "logic".

You say without the DM there is no game, well I might also remind you without players there isn't any game either. Unless you consider the DM sitting around mentally masturbating a game.

 

[Sixchan]

Which of these definitions would art fall in ?


art1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ärt)
n.
1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.

Sort of like what DMs do when they create worlds. That's imitating Nature in a way.

2. a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b. The study of these activities.
c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.

Aside from the bit about graphic or plastic medium (which doen't make sense considering the mention of sound in the first part), this sounds similar to roleplaying.

3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.

Well, if you're a good roleplayer, then this is true.

4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.

Or roleplaying.

5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.

Roleplaying sure as hell ain't scientific.

6. a. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
b. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.

a. The Core Rulebooks.
b. The users of these books (Roleplayers).

7. a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: “Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice” (Joyce Carol Oates).

a. That sounds like Roleplaying. You get better as you go along.
b. Intuition can often be a part of games.

8. a. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
b. Artful contrivance; cunning.

Strategy, tactics, trickery and cunning are part of roleplaying.

9. Printing. Illustrative material.

Sounds like the Rulebooks again...

 

[Henry]

HeavyG,

I see you grabbed your dictionary the same place i did.

Read my post concerning the definitions, and the activities that Players and DM's do that take on the characteristics of art.

Just as not every doodle in a sketch book is truly "art", not every game of D&D is art. But some of the time and effort and quality put into some D&D campaigns by both its players and DM's rivals that put into the creation of prose and poetry - and some of it is better than prose and poetry I've seen.

As I said before, Homer told campfire tales - but they were darned awesome campfire tales.

 

[blackshirt5]

I'd have to say that the PC belongs to both the player AND the DM. You've both worked together to craft this character(whether or not you've actually sat down and worked on it together, you have helped shape the characters development).

Of course, IANAL(I Am Not A Lawyer), plus it matters little in my games, we're all buddies, so it's not a huge deal.

 

[Pagan priest]

My character is MY character. If I leave a campaign, the DM is free to mention my character's name, tell his history, and in general refer to my character. The DM has no right to actually play my character. In fact, I do not allow any one to play a character of mine at any time. If I am late or miss a session, my character takes no part in any events that occure during my absence.

I do not feel this way about all of my characters, there have been times that I would happily allow a character to exist as an NPC, but these are rare cases. By way of example, a high level paladin, son of a Demi-God, grandson of a greater Goddess, and ruler of a city. He may still be in use as an NPC in two different campaigns, with my blessing. That role was assumed when I brought him into the campaigns. In general, hands off.

Some folks don't care one way or the other. Some can be happy to think that their characters will continue on. Fine, that's your choice.

*****

As far as RPGing as art... I never thought of it like that before, but yes it does make sense. Most games are to art as a high school garage band is to music, but some do achieve that lofty position.

 

[Thresher]

I hope to never play with such people.
You scare me.

Fair enough theres a certain amount of intellectual copywrite with fiction (if you could call it that) but I hope you both get Judge Judy on the day it makes court so I can see it on TV



(Still, the chances of anyone want to trot out one of my characters for anything else but an example of "What Not to Do" is unlikely, theyre all so gimped )

 

[Lisa Nadazdy]

On a further note, in any game I've ever run, I've required my player's character sheets and made copies, because there is no way I'm holding up a game for the other players because someone no-shows. All the people who won't let the GM do so are inconsiderate slobs, end of story.