who should choose familiar/spells DM or player?

[Plane Sailing]

I wrote him all this in an email and if he will not change his mind then I will just go up in ranger and forget the entire sorcerer thing.

Sounds like this is likely to be your best option.

I can't believe a DM randomly determining a sorcerers spells though - it removes almost any chance of the class being effectual and fun to play.

 

[rgard]

Thanks for everyone's replies.

I would like to say something about my DM he is not a bad guy. He wants his players to have fun. I have had him as GM for our Shadowrun game for 8 years so that says something.

He runs a great game with a lot of role playing and wheels within wheels that make the game really intresting.

We are all role players and like a high level of role play in game. The DM likes things to make role play sense. For example he would never allow you to add Barbarian to your character after first level unless it made sense. You spent time with a barbarian tribe or you are a barbarian who planned to multiclass all along and you just took another class first.

I have no problem with that I agree with it.

For my sorcerer we have been playing out weird things happening around the campfire at night weird sounds things moving by themselves. Role playing out the developing magic.

I had no idea that he was going to do the thing with the spells or the familiar until after I had leveled and had done my sheet that is when he told me about having to summon the familiar which I cannot do anyway because I don't have enough gold to buy the expensive materials.

AS for the spells I am really not happy over giving up that much control of my character. When I play a sorcerer I tailor the spell list to the personality of the character. I am not someone who picks all the so called must have spells for sorcerers.

I let role playing help me pick. For example I played a sorcerer who was very dark and bitter and chaotic she wanted anyone who attacked her to really suffer so no quick death spells for her. I took most of the spells from the school of necromancy and there was no sign of magic missle or fireball any where on my character sheet.

We had discussed this and I thought we were on the same page with the idea of tailoring the spell list to the sorcerer. I did not realize that it would be random.

I love role playing but I also realize that this is a game and not everything can be role played out.

It maybe more realistic for a sorcerer's spells to be random but it is not much fun in a game.

I wrote him all this in an email and if he will not change his mind then I will just go up in ranger and forget the entire sorcerer thing.

Good luck! Please let us know what he decides. We may have to send a player Strike Team to deal with him!

 

[Nellisir]

Actually I am third level and at this moment I have about 50 GP. We had to raise a party member and it wiped us out. That and we had to bail the party rogue out of jail that really wiped us out.

Ah, see, there's your problem. Caring and generosity will bankrupt you every time. Now you'll have to frame the rogue for another crime, then turn him in for the reward.

 

[Elf Witch]

Yeah, because ENWorld is a well balanced community

First off, not to open old wounds, but it is the DMs game. He's putting all the work into it. If it was everyone's game, he wouldn't be the only one busting his tail between games to make sure everyone else enjoys it (no, I don't want to open this discussion again, just thought the counterpoint needed to be out there).

As to the OP, I have always used random familiar generation. The reasoning is sound, and letting PCs pick just ends up with a zillion uber-familiars.

I've done spells both ways, and honestly, I think it sucks when the spells are randomly determined by the DM. Spellcasters get one thing well - spells. I'd tell him you can see his point on the familliar, if he will give you your way with spells. Point out that random generation could leave you with a character you don't enjoy (not because you want control, but because it's the only thing you get... Not like a Sorcerer is gonna specialize or anything). Tell him your character knows what they're trying to do, and they're working on it between levels. Maybe even agree to tell him when you level what spell you're gonna work on next...

Sounds like you like the DM overall, don't listen to the "I'd leave" advice, work on it with him.

Just my 0.02 Rubles.

Don.

I have a question for you how is choosing your own familiar leading to uber familiars?

This is how I am looking at it. Having a familiar can put the mage at risk its killed and you lose XP. Which is why a lot of players won't take them.

Or if they do they are put in a backpack and never seen again.

Now all familiars give an extra goody to the mage if you have no control over that I personally don't see why it is worth taking the risk.For example I want a cat familiar for the move silently bonus and the fact that I am an urban ranger and I want to be able to use my familiar to spy and keep watch on people or places.

Now a cat seems perfect for this less likely to draw attention and less likely to get killed like say a rat or a mouse. A toad dosen't make any sense because they are not out during the day. But cats are a dime a dozen in a city.

The olny special thing a sorcerer gets is a familiar and I don't think it is right to take choice away from the player.

You don't make a fighter roll to see what random feat he gets as his bonus feat so why make a sorcerer roll and take the chance of getting a familiar that is not suitable for what they want.

 

[Elf Witch]

Ah, see, there's your problem. Caring and generosity will bankrupt you every time. Now you'll have to frame the rogue for another crime, then turn him in for the reward.

LOL The player playing the rogue was the character that died as well. He is new to the game and he does not understand how fragile low level characters can be. He also learned that mouthing off at the city guards can get you a stay in the city dungeons.

But he a lot of fun to play with because he is not jaded he finds everything new and exiciting and he throws himself into his character.

 

[rgard]

I have a question for you how is choosing your own familiar leading to uber familiars?

This is how I am looking at it. Having a familiar can put the mage at risk its killed and you lose XP. Which is why a lot of players won't take them.

Or if they do they are put in a backpack and never seen again.

Now all familiars give an extra goody to the mage if you have no control over that I personally don't see why it is worth taking the risk.For example I want a cat familiar for the move silently bonus and the fact that I am an urban ranger and I want to be able to use my familiar to spy and keep watch on people or places.

Now a cat seems perfect for this less likely to draw attention and less likely to get killed like say a rat or a mouse. A toad dosen't make any sense because they are not out during the day. But cats are a dime a dozen in a city.

The olny special thing a sorcerer gets is a familiar and I don't think it is right to take choice away from the player.

You don't make a fighter roll to see what random feat he gets as his bonus feat so why make a sorcerer roll and take the chance of getting a familiar that is not suitable for what they want.

You don't need to defend your decision with the cat familiar. It works perfectly and makes sense with your urban ranger. It a good choice and it is your choice to make in any reasonable campaign.

Again, not to beat a dead horse, but your DM is off-base with him picking your familiar and randomly rolling sorcerer spells for you.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[schporto]

You don't make a fighter roll to see what random feat he gets as his bonus feat so why make a sorcerer roll and take the chance of getting a familiar that is not suitable for what they want.

I think a better analogy would be to roll whenever someone takes a weapon focus feat. Randomly choosing the weapon a fighter is best at. Think about it a sorcerer's weapons are their spells. A fighters weapons are his well weapons. If you randomly choose one I think you should randomly choose the other.
Or do you kinda end up doing this with random treasure that gives a +1 heavy pick to a fighter with weapon focus longsword?
-cpd

 

[Mycanid]

Hey there MonkeyDragon - thank you for such a balanced and thought out reply!

I thought about it some more last night, and if it were me I would still go for the 'ole random familiar thing, but I would definitely let the arcane spellcasters choose their own spells. Seems to me that's part of the whole thing about being a trained caster - they are able to sort things out/organize the talents they have inherently or learned to channel them into specific areas ... i.e. they can CHOOSE their spells.

But that's just my take.

Elfwitch - thank you for posting the description about the DM. Your favorable depiction is EXACTLY what I picked up "between the lines" of the post ... and I am more than glad that you are willing to continue playing the game and not just up and away because something did not "go your way"! We need more playing like that.

In a certain sense it is like life. We all try "career paths" or whatnot for a time. Heck, some of us even go to college for years to train to be a particular profession only to discover it is not where our hearts really lie. If you choose the ranger (or whatever else) turn the whole event into a good opportunity to RP - make the best of the situation. Often unexpected things give the flavor to the game.

 

[Flyspeck23]

It maybe more realistic for a sorcerer's spells to be random but it is not much fun in a game.

The PHB describes the sorcerer as having "inborn talent honed by practice". Seems like your DM is all for the "inborn talent", but couldn't care less about the "practice".

In what way could that be considered "more realistic"?

Of course there is always the possibility that the DM has something BETTER in mind for you that you are not aware of, and your insisting on the cat gets in the way of something he wants to arrange to let the adventure unfold as it should or as he would like.

Not if we're talking random rolls - what could the DM have in mind? A true chaotic campaign?

 

[pawsplay]

I think a better analogy would be to roll whenever someone takes a weapon focus feat. Randomly choosing the weapon a fighter is best at. Think about it a sorcerer's weapons are their spells. A fighters weapons are his well weapons. If you randomly choose one I think you should randomly choose the other.
Or do you kinda end up doing this with random treasure that gives a +1 heavy pick to a fighter with weapon focus longsword?
-cpd

It's really even worse than that, really. I've been thinking about this... if magic is sort of random and you can't pick how and when you learn a certain spell, how do you even take levels in sorcerer at all? What meaning does caster level have? We're talking about a character that can gain power as a spellcaster, but exerts no control over what form that power represents. In short, the random sorcerer would never really get "better" in the sense of being able to do specific things with his magic.