Who will "fill in the grid"?

[Merlin the Tuna]

the arcane-divine split is rendered COMPLETELY nonsensical.

Y'know, a couple of us have considered it completely nonsensical for a while now.

 

[SteveC]

As to why the grid is important consider this: if the game is designed so that a balanced party should have members that represent each of the roles, you want each of the roles to have an equal number of classes so that you can give the same number of choices.

As of now, there isn't a Martial Controller from what I understand. As a result of that, the class choices for being the controller are less than the other roles. That's a bad thing, pure and simple.

Is it on the level of "someone has to play the cleric?" Nope, not that bad, but it's still undesirable to give some of the roles more choices to work with than others.

Just my $.02.

--Steve

 

[Deekin]

Bull-hockey. *points to Bard in PHB


Wasn't there a "Societal Mind" psionic class floating around?

Also, I'm not too worried about Wizards going "grid" crazy. After all, we are only getting 1 controller (supposedly) in the intial PHB for 4e...

The Society Mind, from Dreamscarred Press's Untapped Potential, is a psionic class that links the minds of the party, allowing them to function as a single greater power.

 

[PeterWeller]

The Society Mind, from Dreamscarred Press's Untapped Potential, is a psionic class that links the minds of the party, allowing them to function as a single greater power.

Now I can run my Wu Tang Clan campaign. "We form like Voltron, and GZA is the head."

 

[Kobu]

I'll be taking a shot at martial controller if WotC doesn't step up in the Martial book, although I suspect they will.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Y'know, a couple of us have considered it completely nonsensical for a while now.

I don't think it needs to be defined by healing, but I don't mind the general concept.


I think one of the hardest parts to pull off is the Martial Controller. I already disliked classes in video games that use traps within combat, how less would I like them in a pen & paper game?
So you need to come up with a different solution, I guess.

I wouldn't want to focus on filling the grid in every case. But if someone has a cool idea how some things that work that look awkward from the outside, more power to them. If I don't like the idea, I don't have to use the class. But nobody should desperately try to come up with something.

 

[Victim]

I worry that even WOTC will get carried away with the roles. For example, psionics: they'll probably want three or four classes. Psion (controller) and Mindblade (striker) seem obvious. But if they then ignore Wilder because it's a redundant slot, and try to come up with a "psionic leader" instead... that'd be just plain silly, in my opinion.

Why? The Wilder is just awful. Keeping classes with the role "same as X class but much worse" is plain silly, in my opinion.

 

[Steely Dan]

So far I'm thinking (hoping):


-Arcane Leader = Bard
-Arcane Defender = Swordmage

-Primal Leader = Druid
-Primal Defender = Barbarian
-Primal Controller = Elementalist
-Primal Striker = Sorcerer

-Psionic Leader = Ardent
-Psionic Defender = Psychic Warrior
-Psionic Controller = Psion
-Psionic Striker = Lurk/Soulknife

-Shadow Leader = Necromancer
-Shadow Striker = Assassin
-Shadow Controller = Shadowcaster
-Shadow Defender = Black Guard

 

[Klaus]

"Filing in the grid" allow for players and DMs to have a certain flavor or theme to a campaign. Since the "ideal" party would have at least one class from each role. If the grid is filled in you can then have an ideal party from a single power source (theme).

gritty low magic group - All martial; fighter, rogue, warlord, trapper (martial controller)

The inquisition - All divine: Paladin, harrier (divine striker), cleric, priest (divine controller)

Hogwart's wrecking squad - Swordsage, warlock, bard, wizard

etc... etc...

DM's can worldbuild by allowing/denying power sources without closing off necessary roles. "The gods have all died, no divine characters", or "Arcane magic is considered evil and you'll get burned at the stake if you use it." and so forth.

I fully support filling out the grid, and I think WotC should have come out with a full grid in the PHB.

 

[glass]

Arcane Leader = Bard
Martial Controller = Archer
Arcane Defender = Swordmage (this is one is already planned for the future according to WotC)

Easy.

Easy to say. Now how does the archer class actually work? How does it fill the Controller role? Not so easy to implement.

EDIT: For and Archer to be a controller, he would have to be be able to pull of lots of amazing tricks with his arrows, while simultaneously being pretty bad at just shooting people with them, which makes no sense.


glass.