Who Will the New Publishers Be?

[BradfordFerguson]

There is a WIDE GULF between a basic set and a 320-page PHB. Maybe D&D miniatures are on an island in the middle of that gulf. The good thing about D&D minis is that they are pre-generated so players can choose between them instead of having to figure out every part of the PHB, and the rules for DDM are much shorter.

The key, in my mind, to bridging the gulf between basic and 320-page PHB is existing players. Existing players saying, "ignore that PHB for now, try out this character that's already made, and what you need to know right away is..." Basic may get some folks hooked like it did us, but what really gets folks into it are other people who are passionate about it.

Anyways, I think its great that Joe (the OP) has reminded us of history and those of us who enjoy watching the industry are definitely eager to see what happens.

 

[Gundark]

I get the sense (and I mention this in my review of the DDM Starter Set whose rulebook is 48 pages! Yucky length for new players!) that 4E will not be as accessible to the masses as WotC hopes. The 4E PHB weighs in at 320 pages! This is a HUGE MISTAKE! Even a 256-page PHB is too intimidating for prospective new players (players new to RPGs). 320 FULL SIZED PAGES? Let's say I've never played an tabletop RPG before... I'm more likely than not to say, "ummm, NO. Give me a computer game thanks."

I agree partially with this statement. The local RPGA used to play at the LGS (due to the owner being a bird brain they relocated). They were a source of revenue in selling PHBs. Someone would come in who never played before and would walk over to one of the tables, they guys (& girls) were pretty good at saying hey "you wanna watch?" and were good at answering questions people had. And several times there was a PHB sale and they'd come back next time to play.

I think that WotC should push demos like crazy in LGS. While I agree that for someone who has never heard of the game buying 3 books is intimidating. People who play the game are a lot more likely to buy books.

 

[see]

With odds for failure so high, beyond just doing it as a hobby, are we even going to see new 4e companies that can compete with existing 3e ones switching to 4e?

Yes.

Gaming companies are like music bands; the failure of almost all of them doesn't dissuade the next people from launching their own, and a small fraction succeed against the odds. This was going on for literal decades before the OGL was written; it will continue in the GSL era.

 

[JohnSnow]

There is a WIDE GULF between a basic set and a 320-page PHB. Maybe D&D miniatures are on an island in the middle of that gulf. The good thing about D&D minis is that they are pre-generated so players can choose between them instead of having to figure out every part of the PHB, and the rules for DDM are much shorter.

The key, in my mind, to bridging the gulf between basic and 320-page PHB is existing players.

While that's true, there are some things WotC can do to make the game more accessible to new players. First, when the game releases, or just prior to it, they should release an adventure that includes pre-generated characters and quick-start rules. For people who want to give the game a try, presenting them with characters, an adventure, and the basic rules of the game in one easy to access format is a GREAT introduction to the system. Interestingly, it seems that's exactly what WotC is doing with the adventure Keep on the Shadowfell.

Secondly, in time for Christmas, you should release a new boxed set that's more like the original Dungeons & Dragons game. It can include many of the same options as the books (possibly simplified slightly), but should go only up through, say, Level 10. It is my personal opinion that rather than being a totally separate game, like the Basic Set was, it should be a simplified (stripped-down, essentially) version of the game that's presented in full in the Hardcovers. It wouldn't need to have as many classes, races, monsters, powers, feats, or magic items, but it should not actually use different rules. That way, it's the perfect introduction to the game for people who might be intimidated by the three hardcovers (or for grandparents who are trying to decide whether to buy their smarty-pants grandchildren D&D or Risk).

In the spirit of roping in those grandparents, the game should probably release with the same race options it had in 1974 - Humans, Elves, Dwarves, and Halflings. If you only go up through the heroic levels (or maybe even just level 9), there's probably enough room for the same base 8 classes that are in PHB I, but if not, the game would be complete with just the cleric, fighter, rogue, and wizard. Then you need some monsters, some magic items, some DMing advice, and an adventure.

Throw in some dice, dungeon tiles, and some cheap tokens to represent characters, and you have a starter game. Then, you just need a price point that's about comparable to any other game - $20 or so. Interestingly, this looks to be exactly what they're doing with this product.

The only question is how much they'll simplify the rules. Because if they keep all the basic rules of running the game the same, then the hardcovers are all about options, advice, continuing the game, and more options! It's the best of both worlds from the Basic Set days.

We can only hope.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Of the hundreds of companies that published with 3e, very few are actually successful. With odds for failure so high, [...] are we even going to see new 4e companies that can compete with existing 3e ones switching to 4e?

Yes, because that's how capitalism works.

Many enter the market. Many fail. Some succeed. Some of the ones that succeed now, fail later. Some new people enter and a few of them succeed.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The key, in my mind, to bridging the gulf between basic and 320-page PHB is existing players. Existing players saying, "ignore that PHB for now, try out this character that's already made, and what you need to know right away is..." Basic may get some folks hooked like it did us, but what really gets folks into it are other people who are passionate about it.

Yup.

I tought myself D&D through a copy of The Keep on the Borderlands and the Basic set. But I really didnt get alot of the details of DMing until I played in my first game and saw someone else as the DM in action.

I've never really looked at RPG's a something that someone should learn from the book only. I've always thought that mentorship and learning by example was a big part of the role playing game community. I've introduced a fair amount of people to RPG's when I was younger, people who normally wouldn't even be exposed to them. I've introduced d00d's who were pretty much straight up thugs to RPG's as well as people who thought D&D was for kids and were pretty snobbish about the idea until they got exposed to the possibilities of what RPG's can be.

I'm not a supporter of 4E, I'll be sticking with 3.5, but the only way that I see 4E being successful in the way that WOTC is looking to be is to have the old guard running as many newbie friendly games as possible. The digital game table is no substitute for this at all, but to be honest I don't think it's meant to be. So if you're a 4E guy, as much as it pains me to say this, DONT JUST RUN GAMES FOR YOUR FRIENDS. Run games for people who may be interested in gaming, run a one shot for your non-gaming buddies, put up a notice in your local library offering to run a one-shot for strangers who are curious about it. Basically run games for whoever you can. Even if you get only one person from each group that you run excited, that' one person who's gonna try to suck other people into our hobby.

 

[Rechan]

I think that WotC should push demos like crazy in LGS. While I agree that for someone who has never heard of the game buying 3 books is intimidating. People who play the game are a lot more likely to buy books.

I don't know the frequency of demos pre and post launch, but WotC is doing two 4e demos in my city this week alone; one at a gaming store, and one at a library.

 

[Filcher]

Thing is, there had never been large 3rd-scale party publishers before (at least, not in the last 15 years). So previously-WotC writers exploded into a vacuum. These days a lot of that territory is already staked out by established 3rd party publishers. If I was working for Wizards on 4E, then got laid off, it would be much easier to join up with an existing company than to form my own.

Also, for what it is worth, talent at writing/rules design does not make you a good business person. Many folks would do themselves a favor, in my opinion, if they find a way to stick to what they are best at.

 

[Pinotage]

Yes, because that's how capitalism works.

Many enter the market. Many fail. Some succeed. Some of the ones that succeed now, fail later. Some new people enter and a few of them succeed.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Possibly. The messageboards have been awfully quiet though. I would hope to see prospective 4e companies starting to make themselves known at some point in the future not too far away.

Pinotage