Who would win?

[Trellian]

My characters are in the middle of a nasty feud between Red Wizards and The Nine Golden Swords (a kind of yakuza operating out of Thesk). Anyway, two small armies of these two factions will meet for battle, and the PCs may either opt to join in on one of these sides, watch it out, or run like hell. But who would win? Here is a list of the two sides. I was at first thinking of running this battle, maybe allowing the players to control some of the npc's, but I think the best idea is to decide who wins up front. The wizards arrive first at the scene, and are therefore in an ambush. The Golden Swords does not know the wizards are there, but the wizards do not suspect Golden Swords either (they are waiting for the PCs). Anyway, I would bet my money on the Red Wizards, due to the sheer firepower they have in the wizards, and because they are hiding. But on the other hand, the yakuza'll probably detect them using some scouts and spot checks. I'd like to hear your opinion on who would win this fight.

RED WIZARDS (total 30)
Abj/Red Wizard 8/1
Enchanter 5
Wiz 4 (3)
Wiz 3 (2)
Wiz 1 (3)
Cleric 5
Cleric 1 (4)
Ftr/Thayan Knight 5/1
Ftr/Thayan Knight 6/1
Fighter 3 (2)
Warrior 2 (8)

NINE GOLDEN SWORDS (total 32)
Mnk 8
Mnk 6
Fighter/Mnk 2/2 (2)
Mnk 4 (2)
Mnk 3 (4)
Mnk 2 (6)
Rogue 3 (8)
Wizard 3 (3)
Cleric 6
Fighter 1 (5)

 

[diaglo]

how far apart of the combatants?

from range the Wizards and their warriors will mop the floor with them. concentrating fire on the nonmonks first.

also scouts can be picked off from hiding. and still not relay any info back to the main group.

 

[Flyspeck23]

Who'd win? Warduke, of course

Honestly, I'd put my money on the Red Wizards.

But I'd play it out. Not with the standard D&D rules, but with one of the bazillion d20 mass combat system currently available. Could be fun

 

[Breakdaddy]

Yeah but monks are pretty fast, so if they get the initiative and arent TOO far apart, they can get on those Red Wizards pretty damn quick. With support from the non monks they could wipe the Red Wizards out pretty quickly. Of course, if the wizards get the initiative at any fair range (30+ feet) then it could go very badly indeed for the monks. However, if the monks know they are going into battle, and their cleric buffs em with anti fire and lightning spells first, the wizards will have a MUCH harder time.

 

[diaglo]

i would agree with you Breakdaddy. but the premise is the monks are unaware.

it looks like from the setup the Red WIzards will get a surprise round.

 

[Wicht]

I count 99 character levels on each side - so I suspect it will be a pretty close fight. Only one wizard (not counting the enchanter) that I see is going to be able to cast fireballs – most of them will be stuck with magic missiles or acid arrows, nasty but not instant death. The monks and fighters will close into melee pretty quickly and then the wizards warriors will be holding them off for a few rounds.

I would play it out this way – whichever side the PCs help is going to win. If the PCs don’t help, the wizards get the jump on the monks but the monks get into melee in the second round, wipe out the warriors in the third round and fight to a draw by the sixth round, with both sides realizing they are too evenly matched and withdrawing, with severe losses all around. .

 

[Trellian]

The plot is something like this. The Nine Golden Swords hired the pc's to steal something from the Red Wizards. The pc's did this, but the item was then stolen by a fourth party (another adventuring group). The pc's have negotiated to pay a hefty sum for the item, and the exchange is to take place at a crossroads in the wild, with the only real feature being a large tree (it is on the plains). The yakuza knows this (having sent a spy after the pcs), so they are planning on double crossing the other adventuring group by showing up in force and taking the item without paying. The other adventuring group have told the Red Wizards about the meeting, and they plan to double cross the pcs, showing up 2 hours early to lay an ambush. The yakuza come about an hour after the wizards. So the yakuza don't know they are wading into an ambush, but the only place the wizards can hide is perhaps behind a small knoll or something. And they do not know that enemies will come so soon, so they aren't buffed up with spells that lasts shorter than a couple of hours. Maybe they aren't in proper hiding either.

So when the pcs show up (unless they show up early) 1 hours after the two factions met, they will probably see a battle field. The fourth adventuring group has already sold the item to the Red Wizards and have no intention to show up.

I think the wizards will attack using spells, and the monks will close in quick. However, after a few rounds of battle, the monks and their henchmen will realize they are in trouble, and use their superior speed to make a hasty retreat. The non-monks in the group would be killed, as they cannot escape the wizards' spells, and the warriors' arrows.

 

[Simulacrum]

Looks like the enclave in Telflam will be very angy after hearing about that ambush....they will demand backup from Berzantur soon.
Actually people should not forget that Red Wizards loose at least 2 schools due to specialization and another 2 schools from the level they got into the PrC.
That makes their choice of spells somewhat limited.
Never the less my guess would be the Nine Golden Swords. If they manage to get close into the ranks of the Red Wizards they cant hit em with the big bang spells. Whilst the Nine Golden Swords mage can open the battle with a nice clean fireball thrown into the midst of the Red party.
It depends on who gets the initiative, but Monks should be faster than Wizards and tumble forward to the wizards to quickly stun them....
Its going to be HOT battle, please post how it turned out and how long it took....

And what about magic items? If there are some magic items in the game things can turn out very different quickly. Then my bet would be the Red Wizards who have superior magic items selection all the time...

 

[Wraithdrit]

Red Wizards win easily.

Greater Invisibility, Invisibility Sphere, etc.

Round one. Cloudkill. Up to 26 of the Golden Swords are dead with no save. Period. Others are horribly hurt.

Want to make sure they group up for you? Cast a summon monster V in the middle of them first, going for max number of creatures. The army swarms in all fists and fury then you center the cloudkill on them.

After that, drop an icestorm in. No save, so those godlike monk saves don't matter, nor does evasion.

Send in the mounted knights to clean up the remnants.

Really a Red Wizard getting the chance to ambush is going to really maim an opposing force before they even get a chance to do anything. Especially when the opposing force is not expecting anything but a small group of adventurers.

 

[Simulacrum]

While thinking about it Wraithdrit maybe right.
The Wizards get will probably get the initiative and win the battle too easily. The highest caster is 9th level and can drop two 5th level spells....this is going to HURT!

I would let the cleric of the 9GS yakuza group cast a divination spell to sense that something will go badly wrong this way.