Why 4e is a good thing (even if you hate it)

[Mark Chance]

Before 4E had been released, the only game I had ever played was D&D.

I used to play all sort of different RPGs. Not so much anymore. We're sort of stuck in a 3.5 rut, but I'm going to break that mold a bit in a few weeks when I take over DMing again. It'll still be d20 System-ish with a 3.5 chassis, but I'm retooling the innards a bit.

4E was pretty much a non-event for me. Still is. I ceased to be interested in much of anything WotC was doing before 4E was ever announced. My current disinterest is just more of the same, I guess.

 

[M.L. Martin]

WH FRPG has been around forever though... At least since the days of 2e. (I remember playing a giant clear skinned troll monstrosity and eating a gnomish pastry chef...)

It did, however, come back from the grave during the 3E/d20 era, launching a new edition after being several years out of print.

Another RPG that managed a healthy revival during the d20 era would be the HERO System.

 

[Glade Riven]

Figures that someone would demand hard stats...well I don't have them. I just look at the trends that I happen to see. My own gaming group has shown interest in at least looking at alternative systems since 4e has come out, with a few purchases made. Pathfinder has reigned that back a little (mainly due to the massive library of d20 books we have).

Now, equating 4e as the black plague - that is a bit excessive.

 

[Scribble]

It did, however, come back from the grave during the 3E/d20 era, launching a new edition after being several years out of print.

Another RPG that managed a healthy revival during the d20 era would be the HERO System.

Hrmmm guess I didn't realize it was out of print. A buddy of mine ran it, and collected it, I never did.


I think it still shows though, that it's not really a new system... Seemed like the general trend durring the past decade has been do something "new" but use the d20 system, or revive/keep alive an existing system.

I think we're finally starting to break back into new systems with new games. Which makes me happy... I like d20, but I also like looking at other ideas that aren't just the base idea retooled....

But again I'm just a random dude on the internet so I don't have any real figures.

 

[rogueattorney]

Oh, I thoroughly disagree. As an ENnies judge for several of those years, let me say that the non-d20 products were few and far between. WotC recognizes this as well; when I spoke to Bill Slaviscek last summer, he mentioned (from my notes):

If Bill has a regret about 3rd edition, d20, it’s that they got rid of all the other roleplaying games. That wasn’t the intent, but he misses going to the game store and seeing what FASA did that day. He's pleased that it's now swinging back the other way.​

Nice quote from Slaviscek, except for the fact that he's wrong... It was completely the intent of the d20/OGL licenses.

 

[Umbran]

Nice quote from Slaviscek, except for the fact that he's wrong... It was completely the intent of the d20/OGL licenses.

Thank you very much for your internet mind-reading. Your ability to know the unspoken intent of people you've never met is... uncanny.

 

[Blastin]

Thank you very much for your internet mind-reading. Your ability to know the unspoken intent of people you've never met is... uncanny.

Lol....yet another reason not to get on Umbran's bad side

I do think he's right though, if not stated very diplomatically. I believe that it was stated at one point that the intent was to make D20 THE RPG system. And it did just that. Kinda. Just not quite like they wanted.

My group has "system ADD", as they put it, so we didn't get that effect. I think 4e might have made those who didn't like it but also were hoping for an improvement to 3.5 more open to considering systems that they might not have looked at otherwise. I had a previous group that would ONLY play 3/3.5 d20. I hear now that they have tried C&C since 4e...

 

[Festivus]

Anecdotal as this might be, a fair number of people coming into our meetup over the past two years are former D&D players of OD&D, who are now hitting their 35-45 age set and looking to recapture their youth. 4E is a BIG hit with these folks, and I expect that mid life crisises have nothing to do with it

 

[rogueattorney]

Thank you very much for your internet mind-reading. Your ability to know the unspoken intent of people you've never met is... uncanny.

<Sigh>... I neither need to read Mr. Slaviscek's mind because PC quoted what he thought right there in his post, nor do I need to read the mind of Ryan Dancey, who has written many, many times about the intended effect of WotC's open gaming initiatives. Here's a good example right here.

Pertinent quote:

The logical conclusion says that reducing the "cost" to other people to publishing and supporting the core D&D game to zero [by opening the rules content of the game] should eventually drive support for all other game systems to the lowest level possible in the market, create customer resistance to the introduction of new systems, and the result of all that "support" redirected to the D&D game will be to steadily increase the number of people who play D&D, thus driving sales of the core books.

Emphasis mine.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

I care not one whit for 4e. It is not a game I care to play. Ever. And while it may draw new players into the game, they will undoubtedly prefer 4e to other editions. I fail to see ow that helps me in any way. It will not create a larger player base for older editions, the product is not easily adaptable to the games I play, and it's probably the main reason the pdf support of oop editions was stopped. I fail to see how it benefits those who do not care for 4e in any way whatsoever.

Enjoy it if you like it, but don't proselytize that it helps those of us who don't play it. It doesn't.