Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[Guillaume]

I have not read through the whole thread, but a lot of what I feel about Dragon has been summed up. I have always been a reader of Dungeon Magazine. It always answered my need in a gaming magazine : it provided for cheap and well written adventures. Dragon on the other hand, every time I have bought a copy, it has remained unused. No matter what edition of D&D I play, the content stays mostly unread and untouched.

You see, I have a tendancy of playing a barebone game. My games have generally been defined by the core books and a few rules added here and there. In the recent edition the ad nauseum inclusion of new feats, new skills, new prestige classes and more recently new base classes, just don't interest me.

The few copies that I have bought usually touched upon very restritive subjects that intrigued me : Orders of Knighthood, the Shanara campaign setting, articles on medieval Paris and Bagdhad, etc. Mostly those articles were thing I could add to my homebrewed campaign setting. In other words, they delt more with details, background and information than with new rule sets.

What would get me to buy Dragon, less of the new rules content and more of the context of the game, background ideas, adaptations work, etc. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that this would not please your main readership.

Good luck.

P.S.: Demographic information if you need it : Male, Ph.D. student, 33 years old, played BD&D, AD&D 2nd and D&D 3.0/3.5. Been playing since 1980-1981. Living in Canada.

P.P.S. : By the way, the prices for Dragon are brutal here in Quebec ! That's no help in selling it to the student crowd.

 

[solkan_uk]

I just lost interest, Dragon stopped containing anything I hadn't read before.

Dungeon I only bought for the D20 mini games, without those, it's not worth it.

Actually I'd buy a seperate mag for non D&D D20 stuff, a mix of Star Wars, Modern and mini-games.

 

[philreed]

I'm doing my best not to reply to this thread, as I want you guys to provide as much "raw" feedback as possible without me or my staff getting in the way. I'll reply to the thread as a whole once everyone has had a chance to contribute.

I look forward to your reply. And, it must be said, I have to respect your self-control. I don't think I could take this much feedback without responding to 90%+ of the posts.

 

[Arnwyn]

An interesting (and timely) question, considering I just let my subscription lapse this month after more than 10+ years.

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

I no longer buy Dragon as it doesn't seem to meet my needs as a DM anymore. The last thing I want are more feats, prestige classes, spells, or magic items (or races). Any book (regardless of publisher) that focuses on these things automatically garners a "no sale" from me.

Further, the lack of FR material (read: Ed Greenwood articles) also doesn't help. While I certainly understand that campaign settings don't appeal to a large segment, it does appeal to me, and thus I must make a purchasing decision based on what I want/need for my game.

The lack of flavor and inspiration is also a detriment, in my eyes. As others have noted (and you have responded to), "The Magic Shop" vs. "Bazaar of the Bizarre" is exactly the symptom of certain attitudes/directions that bother me (a semi-recent editorial re: the planes didn't help either). I just don't see eye to eye with the (previous?) Dragon staff.

Finally, I have no interest whatsoever in Eberron, and find such materials valueless (and a cost/benefit analysis quickly tells me that they're not worth it to adapt).

In the end, I'm a DM who is far more interested in location specific material, and not at all interested (anymore) in character specific material. All the character specific material in the world is worth nothing without locations to play them in.

P.S.
I agree with everything Thorin Stoutfoot (Post #8) said, as well as BelenUmeria in Post #88.

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

To be honest, I don't think anything would do it for me. Dungeon (with it's location specific material) is what I need. I'm not sure what Dungeon could provide on top of that.

But, I'll be honest. The reason why I subscribed all those years ago was specifically for FR material.

 

[Treebore]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

I

1. I echo the prevailing sentiment that Dragon just doesn't have anything I want. I don't want more PrC's, I don't want more magic items, I don't want a new PC race. I also don't want any more advice on how to powergame or munchkinize characters. I do that well enough on my own and so does everyone I play with, that is interested in doing it to begin with.


2.Changes? More Ecology articles on monsters that already exist in the MM's.

Ideas on how to make magic items, meaning systems or roleplaying elements. Such as what materials would be used to give what properties to an item.

Ideas on how to run economies, trading companies, etc... with helpful tables to streamline the process.

Systems for generating weather and integrate the effects into the campaign events.

Fleshed out guilds, societies, organizations that I can adapt to my use.

Advice columns on how to use/implement the less commonly used rules in the DMG.

Yeah, I know this is all touched on in the DMG, but I want fleshed out ways to actually use these rules.

I also like gaming in the modern and future era's, so an occasional coverage (perhaps every 2 or 3 issues) of these settings would be useful to me.

If all of this has been going on in Dragon I'm sorry I let my subscription lapse a couple of years ago. I do subscribe to Dungeon and love its new format. I haven't bought a single Dragon since my sub ended, but I was tempted with the Duergar Ecology article.

Also, with regards to Dungeon, I do not care about it having to be "in Greyhawk" or "in the Forgotten Realms"; I'm competent enough to alter as needed. I was irritated about Eberron, but then I read them and found out I could still alter them for use in my D&D games, so I got over it. So Dungeon has me very satisfied, now. Before the recent format change I was going to quit buying it too. I held on and am now a happy Dungeon subscriber.

 

[dargoth3]

Why dont I buy Dragon?

Well I only buy Dragon (and Dungeon for that matter) when theres Forgotten realms content and its been fairly lacking in both magazines of late.

So the way to get me to buy more issues is to increase the amount of FR content in the magazines.

There are 2 articles that Dragon does do that I do particularly like

1) Stats for characters in the novels ie the WOSQ character articles

2) Faithes of Faerun Id like to see alot more of these (im particularly keen to see more of the Deity specfic spells in F&A, P&P and DhD converted to 3ed and published here)

When pazio publish new monsters in Dragon I suggest they take a leaf out of Monster manaul 3 and include a "Where this monster is found" paragraph for some of the published settings ie The FR, Greyhawk, Dragonlance, Eberron etc

 

[13garth13]

First off, I have been reading Dragon since my grandmother bought me the issue with the first part of the Nine Hells article (somewhere in the early #70s...can't recall offhand). Secondly, it might be worth mentioning that I am a DM and my biases for articles will follow accordingly.
Allow me to echo some of the respondents to your query with the reply that Dragon just seems to have lost flavour and imagination...in many ways there is just something ineffable that has vanished over the last few months (much more noticeably {sp?} since the format change, but my sense of dissatisfaction had been growing for a few months prior). As such I allowed my subscription to lapse and will now see on a case-by-case basis from here on in.
I love monster articles, although I must go against what seems to be the popular grain and note that I have never found "Ecology" articles terribly useful to me (even back in the day...although both the Ecology of the Mind Flayer and the Ecology of the Doppleganger were total classics!) Unless there's something like adventure hooks or some interesting ideas on species variations, etc., then there's just nothing that will honestly be quite useful for the few rounds that the creature will be "on screen".
I don't mind magic item articles as long as they are interesting and useful in an average campaign.
I LOVE the idea of a Creature Catalogue!! That would certainly get my interest piqued, because monsters are something that I can actually USE in my game.
Perhaps that is the key...I just haven't found much that was useful in recent issues...
Articles about locations (complete with maps) whether on the Prime or the planes would be useful, as would be new monsters and magic items. Give me things that spark the imagination, rather than dull it with pedestrian writing and dull, ordinary topics. I used to read Dragon to be inspired...and that hasn't happened in awhile...
I don't mind the computer game articles if they actually converted monsters rather than a seemingly endless supply of spells and feats.... .... Allow me to reiterate what many are saying; there is not really much need (IMO of course) for new feats and spells. The core manuals have a great deal of them (although I will also reveal my campaign world bias and state that I looooved the Greyhawk regional feats; thanks for those, Erik) and of course there are more spells than you can shake a stick at, most of which are simple variations on a theme.
Perhaps within the parentheses of my last comment lies the key; feats and such are much more useful when they are immediately applicable and particularly if they are aimed at a particular campaign niche. I think that the move towards the generic in an attempt to make articles more palatable to homebrewers has crippled the degree of flavour that should be present.
I would relish a return to articles devoted to particular campaign worlds (especially more Greyhawk...although everyone else should have their day too of course
The things I don't find useful in the slightest are the Class Acts (boring, flavourless, and for the most part containing information that most of your readership could come up with on their own) and fiction (don't mind it, but never read it or use it so it does tend to amount to wasted space). In addition, the seemingly endless stream of prestige classes leaves me cold (does there really have to be some every issue?!)
In terms of ways to improve and to summarize, I will just say that more Greyhawk (in case I haven't mentioned it previously would be wonderful, as would more articles such as locations and monsters that are both flavourful and immediately usefull.

Cheers,
Colin

 

[Emirikol]

EriK:

One thing I forgot to mention. I dislike that magic items are grouped by theme. 44 Banjo's of Brendigund don't turn me on. I'd rather see them grouped by level. I detest searching through lists of 'themed' items to try to find one that might be something I could give to the PC's. It would be one thing if it was part of a larger article, but I'd still rather see it still broken down by levels.

LOW
MED
HIGH
VERY HIGH

We do this for DUNGEON adventures, why not for magical items?

Another thing: I'd like to see EBERRON/FR/GREYHAWK articles. As I noted earlier, a side-bar helping guys (like the one that posted above) NOT have to 'adapt' something, all the better.

Jay H

 

[Sledge]

1. I don't buy it because it is a nuisance to read. If I can't sit down and read it through and enjoy, why would I want to pay for it.
Also I have found very little actually balanced and with some real flavour.
Annoying items like fiction that is just long enough to be annoying and has no D&D interpretation makes me want to gag. Anything on non RPG games is not D&D. An occasional sidebar (i.e. 1 column in an issue, not on each page) is okay, but articles on the CMG do not belong.

2. To get me to buy I would need some good readable articles. Also get OOTS and I will find it hard to refuse. Finally make it OGC so I can actually get some use out of it over the internet.
If these 3 things happen I know the magazine will get my money.

 

[kigmatzomat]

I think I'm like most gamers in that I read Dragon for a year or two after a new edition and then taper off. I haven't picked up an issue of Dragon in months. Why? In the early days we want to hear what other people have come up with and can expand our understanding of the game's strengths and weaknesses faster than by gaming. But now it's been several years since a new edition's come out (3.5 is a revision, not a new edition) and we understand what it is. We've got all the mechanics we need and anything more tends to contradict canon.

So the real question is: What does Dragon do for gamers in a mature edition? You can't generate rules; I have a shelf full of WotC materials and could easily fill bookcases with 3rd party materials. I'll never use it all. You have to go for flavor and industry.

I haven't picked up a Dragon since the redesign so I might be speaking to the choir on these:

*Serious, critical reviews of OGL/d20 products and not just WotC stuff. Not everyone has access to ENWorld. You want to do an issue on Dwarves? Include reviews and comparisons of Complete/Slayers Guide/etc on Dwarves. Don't just hit the major publishers, go ahead and review PDFs or small market products. And I want to know what sucks about the book. How does the price hold up against the rest of the market? What other books are out there that compete with it?

*Wide ranging setting support. Take Ecology and show how common, OGL creatures would behave in different settings. FR vs Eberron vs. oriental vs greek vs celtic. Show me how goblins can be everything from sniveling toadies to an angry hoard that only attacks in thousand-goblin strong tribes. How will goblins fight peasants & samurai vs how they fight centurions in phalanxes or mounted cavalry?

*When focusing on a setting (cold, space, planar, etc) be sure to explain how it interacts with different levels. A 2nd level party is terrified of snowstorms; most 15th level ones don't even blink. Give ideas on what kind of rolls go with the terrain, how to make it acceptably complicated, what kinds of information the characters will have, and how the native widlife uses the environment.

*Try to minimize product-line specific theme issues and if you have them, explain how this or that would work in a different kind of campaign or if it is appropriate.

*Don't make a Dragon-exclusive the theme of an issue; they rarely fit in most people's game. I seem to recall a couple of novel-specific issues of Dragon that had no support outside of Dragon (Shanarra?). But just because I don't want an entire issue focused on one setting doesn't mean I don't want anything new; I just don't want the new thing to dominate the issue. You want to do Shanarra, you make it tie into the rest of the issue's theme and possibly take more of the tack of how to convert the Shanarra books to D&D.

Ahhh, my spleen feels vented.