Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?

[Virel]

I say this as a gamer that still plays and DM's 1st ed AD&D and as player of 3E.

Back in the early 80's, Dragon Magazine still had something to offer. The best issues are ~30 to ~80 and some are still decent into the low 100's. Friend of mine has every issue some ~35 to ~240 something or when ever 3e came out.

I've seen many many Dragon Mag's.

However, as others have said, it's just a rehash of the same old thing. The newer mag's 300+ are sort of like a collection of the worst of the worst from the old mag's.

Fiction that no one wants, except maybe the editor because that's a few less pages to have to fill. Unbalanced, untested classes etc.

I've looked a probably 1/2 dozen issues of Dragon since the reformat and getting back into gaming, I've not seen an issue worth the paper it's printed on much less $7.

I don't there is any reason for the magazine to exist in it's current form.

 

[Nellisir]

I've let my subscription lapse, but I'm still buying Dragon off the newstand. Not quite the target audience, but what the heck.

I just skimmed the submission guidelines for Dragon and Dungeon (looking for the Creature Catalog info), and it struck me that the Creature Catalog, Backdrops, and Cities of Adventure features in Dungeon just sound so much more interesting than the features in Dragon.

I'll be honest, I loathe advice articles. The only one I ever liked was that old "high fantasy vs low fantasy" article with the cool illustrations -- you know the one.

What's interesting are articles that add something new to my imagination, and not just a new feat. I want new places to visit. Too much of Dragon has fallen into the rut of what has gone before -- I'd like to see the mold broken a little further and the traditions of D&D questioned a bit. Monte Cook's recent collaborative hardcover, Beyond Countless Doorways, had a new outlook on the planes that I'd love to have seen in Dragon.

OGC. I suspect this is a corporate policy that you can't do much about, but the day you announce at least one OGC article every two issues, I'll resubscribe.

Urgh. 1:30 AM tooo late for this. Too many thoughts percolate in my head. I'll have to sleep on it.

Cheers,
Nell.

 

[siege72]

1. Why don't you buy the magazine?

I used to, back in my 2nd Edition days. I stopped for a few reasons:

1. Price. Money is tight, and spending even $40 for a year's subscription is hard to justify. Why? Because for the same price, I could purchase a WotC hardcover -- after reading reviews online, so I know exactly what I'm getting.

2. Technology. Back in the old days, the magazine was the only way to find out about rules, new products, conventions, etc. I've been online a long time, and found that it's faster and easier to post something to a message board (here, WotC's site, LJ communities, etc) than actually look it up in the "dead tree" version.

3. Coverage. I'm not using Eberron or 3.5 -- I'm happy with 3E and the Realms. I'm not sure how much use I'd get at this point.

4. Balance. The material in Dragon is notorious for being... *ahem* untested.

2. What sort of changes would make you more likely to give it another look?

1. Drop the fiction. I've read some of it.. when I was young and bored. Now I'm neither, so the fiction goes unread. (I know, beating a dead horse)

2. Keep the comics limited in size. No more than two pages total, please!

3. Consider the historical perspective. Dragon and Dungeon are unlike most other magazines, in that their owners keep them and use them as a resource. In all likelihood, the articles you publish now will be re-read for many years (and possibly many editions!)

Several types of articles don't age well. Product previews, computer game reviews (and conversions), and convention schedules all become wasted space in a few months.

4. OCR'd PDF files would be a godsend. I do a lot of my campaign/adventure planning on my PC, and desk space is very limited. Being able to search, cut and paste, and not have to leave my desk to find a missing issue would be a major timesaver. I wouldn't even mind if the PDFs came out several months after the magazine. (Also, it would need to be DRM-free. I'm not running Windows on my computer.)

5. If a PDF is outside the scope of things, what about a digest format? A semiannual "best of" issue with the content playtested and revised would be very useful. I'm not even concerned with the format; something similar to Palladium's "Rifter" supplement (perfect bound, non-glossy pages) would be useful.

6. An index. Between the dead tree issues I own, and the PDFs from the CD-Rom archive, there's too much material to sort through. At this point, it's faster and more convenient to use Google and search through a hundred possible matches than it is to sort through even two dozen magazines. There was a fan-made index years ago, but I can't find an updated copy.

Thanks for listening!!

 

[The Other Librarian]

I've read Dragon on and off since the days of Wormy. After a long lapse I started buying on a per issue basis when 3ed hit. I have bought neither Dragon nor Dungeon since Polyhedron went awol.

I think people drop the magazine after the rush of the new 3e for much the same reason that 3rd party publishers died out: A glut of the same old same old. You can only get so much crunch before you realize you will never use much of it in game. the problem is compounded when you've read Dragon for so long - things inevitably move in cycles and you see the same kinds of things rehashed.

The things I tend to like are regular columns, like Monte Cook's or Gary Gygax's columns. Guys like that will always have something interesting to say, and can change things up, address topics as the mood strikes them, while still having the familiarity factor that a good regular column has.

Monsters and magic items are a staple and should be, but I prefer fluffier to crunchier. I liked the city series that Dragon did detailing historical snapshots of places that get me thinking of new ways to imagine a campaign. It's still D&D, but it takes us out of those old western European medieval tropes. Ditto with the Red Sails/Dark Ages spread in 290.

Frankly, if either Dungeon or Dragon picked up Polyhedron again, or at least started doing mini-games and covering other d20 games, iI'd subscribe in a hasted free action. But I think I'm probably in the minority here.

 

[Azul]

I used to buy Dragon religiously back in the early-mid 80s until I moved away from 1e to other rpgs. 3e brought me back but I've been mostly dissappointed with what Dragon has become. Why?

Fundamentally, the current magazine bores me. As several people have mentioned, the writing seems forced into a cookie-cutter dry as a bone template. It reads like a grab-bag of uninspiring, crunch-heavy material.

To be fair, I think it is simply emulating the "appeal to the widest possible audience" approach that WotC has adopted in their rulebooks. The catch is that Dragon *isn't a rulebook* and it shouldn't read like one. It shouldn't be a grabbag of underdevelopped and uninspiring crunch.

Dragon should be a magazine that makes gamers want to game. What would make me want to buy Dragon again?

First and foremost, make Dragon about ideas and inspiration. Flavour material should equal or outweigh any new mechanics. I would much rather read five pages of fluff about single mechanical concept (e.g. a prestige class, a monster, an artifact, whatever), perhaps even including a page or two of flavour fiction that gives me an "in game" feel for how this would fit in to my games, than read 5 pages of back to back crunch with flimsy flavour. Even if I never use the item in question, all that flavour material will get my creative juices flowing and help inspire me. In the worst case, it will be a far more enjoyable read than yet-more-bland-crunch.

I already have several thousand pages of dry crunch-heavy, relatively well-organized rulebooks. I barely manage to use most of the crunch I get from WotC. Why in the world would I want to buy a monthly, dry, crunch-heavy, helter-skelter collection of material? All I get in the end is a big, disorganized mess of drab crunch. Even when some mechanical element interests me, I can't find a bloody thing because magazines make lousy reference material.

I want Dragon to give me a collection of cool gaming ideas along with the necessary crunch to support these ideas. The crunch must serve the fluff because RPGs are all about the fluff. The rules serve the story, not vice-versa. While WotC's rulebooks have to be rule-centric by their very nature, any additional material beyond rulebooks (like Dragon) should be inspirational and informative in nature, not mechanics-heavy.

I do NOT want to read articles that have nothing to do with playing the RPG in some way. That means I have zero interest in anything relating to the miniatures games, to computer RPGs, or to anything that is not roleplaying. I can find better fiction elsewhere. I can find magazines dedicated to computer games elsewhere. I can find book and film reviews elsewhere.

I do NOT want to read a giant ad for WotC's next product. I refuse to spend my money buying ads trying to sell me products. I don't mind seeing ads in Dragon. I absolute hate seeing "articles" that are nothing more than marketing for upcoming or current products. Previews of future material and enhancements to WotC products belong on WotC's web site, not in any magazine I'm willing to pay for. In fact, their web site includes the "In the Works" preview section which does a fine job of informing their customers about future products. I want to be able to open a Dragon magazine a year later and still find all the articles in there to be useful, not find articles that talk about books that I bought (or did not buy) months ago.

Supplemental material that enriches existing WotC material is fine in moderation, but I as a customer always want to feel that I got something worthwhile for my money. An article that adds richness to the Realms or Eberron is cool and will still be useful when I open that Dragon a year later. A 3 page preview or a ADHD-inspired collection of random crunchy bits that feel like scraps that were editted out of the final document is not worth paying for.

Anything relating to the miniatures game or D&D themed computer games feels like an ad because frankly, the vast majority of your readers buy the D&D minis to use in their D&D games and those who play the computer games do it as a seperate hobby. Yes, there is a community of mini game players and computer players but they are not the main audience of the magazine (and perhaps they should have their own magazine in the case of mini gamers - PC gamers definitely have plenty of other magazines). To the majority of your readers, those are wasted pages and thus another reason not to buy Dragon. Stay on topic - RPGs. Roleplayers who play D&D buy Dragon. Cater to them and always focus on enhancing their gaming experience.

Also, if you touch on WotC's stuff, then an occasional article touching on other d20 fantasy settings might be nice once in a while (e.g. Scarred Lands, Kalamar, Iron Kingdoms). Paizo isn't WotC, even if they do have a close relationship. Dragon should reflect the interests of D&D players, not just WotC's marketing department. D&D players use the products of other d20 publishers too. A nod to that fact in Dragon would be nice once in a while.

The issue of fiction was brought up. I think independent fiction (i.e. short stories) don't belong in Dragon because it isn't related to roleplaying. I can buy fantasy fiction if I want fantasy fiction. I buy Dragon for my roleplaying hobby so I want articles related to roleplaying. However, I think chunks of fiction should be interspersed into articles (or perhaps be used to lead into an article or finish an article) to help illustrate and enrich the descriptive text and crunch. Flavour is always good. Use fiction as a tool to help make your articles come to life instead of presenting fiction as a stand-alone segment.

Theme issues are fine if they are done right. A random collection of articles on a general topic is very hit or miss. Either the reader already likes the topic and thus likes the issue or he doesn't and feels the issue is a waste of his time. On the other hand, a theme issue where the articles are geared around inspiring the reader to want to use this theme in his campaign... now that is interesting. Don't just give me a bunch of articles about demon-related stuff. Give me a tour of the Abyss and a feel for its inhabitants and then present me with some cool ideas relating to demons, and maybe so demonic lairs or mini-adventures involving demonic themes.

Including an occasional adventure (say one every other issue) could be cool, especially if it fit with the theme of the issue. Here is a cool theme, here are some cool ideas about that theme and here is an adventure showing you how it all comes together when you use this theme in your game. Linking it all together would make such adventures different from the ones in Dungeon. They wouldn't just be adventures but would also be a way of illustrating the ideas presented in the rest of the issue. Dungeon should remain the primary "adventure-filled" magazine but it should not be taboo to have one in Dragon once in a while when it makes sense.

Take chances. Dare to have personality and flavour. For every person who is turned off by an article with personality, odds are several others read it and thought it was cool. Even if an article bombs, at least people remember it and reacted to it because it wasn't bland and forgettable.

Issues of Dragon prior to issue 100 had plenty of memorable articles on a wide variety of topics. Often you could read 10 pages of really cool gaming stuff and barely see any stats. The current magazine rarely has memorable articles... instead it has inoffensive articles. Templates are for monsters, not Dragon magazine articles. I don't want to read yet another variation on the same old thing with a mild twist. For example - Yet another prestige class... sigh... ok, make me care about it and want to use it! I dare you. Make it exciting. Not just mechanically powerful, but make me want to roleplay one. Do that in the space you would would otherwise use to present 3 other bland prestige classes and I will be much more interested in buying Dragon.

I suppose in the end, I want Dragon to grab me, make me pay attention and most of all make me think about my game in new ways. No forumlaic crunch, nothing unrelated to roleplaying D&D and no marketing material masquerading as genuine articles (ads are ads, articles are articles, preview articles are just ads).

That's it in a nutshell - Dragon should make me want to roleplay D&D and should be about roleplaying D&D. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

[Glyfair]

1)I've only ever read one story arc that i particularly liked (the Fool Wolf stories). By and large they left me cold, or i just didn't read them. Chalk up another anti-fiction vote. I'm surprised at the majority of that sentiment. Pleasantly so.

Odd, I'd have to say Niall of the Far Travels was the only fiction I read on a regular basis. I would probably read the fiction if it helped flesh out a setting and was tied into a theme issue, or if it was from a popular fantasy writer (for example, George R.R. Martin's preview), as long as there was some D&D tie-in to the story.

 

[Swiftbrook]

What to Change/Add

From someone who doesn't subscribe and cherrypicks issues:

• Have Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, Eberron as regular features. 1 every 3 months would be great, 1 every 4 months, with the 4th being 'other' settings would be ok as well. 1-3 is best -- 4 per year, but in addition have an 'other' setting article every other month -- 6 per year. That should hit most settings every few years.
• Detail a small local that everyone has. A gatehouse, pub, herb shop, farm house, etc. Detail 3 or 4 NPCs, include a small map and a visual of the place and people. 3-4 pages tops including art/maps. Something that can be dropped into any setting.
• When including options for Greyhawk or Eberron's Living campaigns, get the RPGA's approval before publishing so that the material really can be used in the campaigns.
• Include a fan speaks back page. Fans can talk about what they're doing in their setting. How they pull this from the Realms and that from Ravenloft and make it all work.
• an Online Index
• Subscribers receive theirs before the newstands

-Swiftbrook

 

[Dragonhelm]

Several good ideas, Azul!

To be fair, I think it is simply emulating the "appeal to the widest possible audience" approach that WotC has adopted in their rulebooks.

Which seems to water down that material at times. Take the shugenja, for example. What they did with it in Complete Divine was okay, but doesn't compare to the L5R version, just because of feel.

First and foremost, make Dragon about ideas and inspiration. Flavour material should equal or outweigh any new mechanics. I would much rather read five pages of fluff about single mechanical concept (e.g. a prestige class, a monster, an artifact, whatever), perhaps even including a page or two of flavour fiction that gives me an "in game" feel for how this would fit in to my games, than read 5 pages of back to back crunch with flimsy flavour. Even if I never use the item in question, all that flavour material will get my creative juices flowing and help inspire me. In the worst case, it will be a far more enjoyable read than yet-more-bland-crunch.

Agreed and agreed!

And, if you want to appeal to a broader audience, you can follow the Monster Manual IIIs example and show how various rules bits work in Greyhawk, the Forgotten Realms, and Eberron - plus have notes for developing it in your own campaign.

I want Dragon to give me a collection of cool gaming ideas along with the necessary crunch to support these ideas. The crunch must serve the fluff because RPGs are all about the fluff. The rules serve the story, not vice-versa. While WotC's rulebooks have to be rule-centric by their very nature, any additional material beyond rulebooks (like Dragon) should be inspirational and informative in nature, not mechanics-heavy.

Agreed!

I often think that story and adventure comes second to mechanics these days. I see more posts about balance issues than I do about adventure, and what everyone's group did last game session. It's time for a change.

I do NOT want to read articles that have nothing to do with playing the RPG in some way. That means I have zero interest in anything relating to the miniatures games, to computer RPGs, or to anything that is not roleplaying. I can find better fiction elsewhere. I can find magazines dedicated to computer games elsewhere. I can find book and film reviews elsewhere.

Agreed. I know that these types of articles are included at times to appeal to a broader audience, but it seems to me that the greatest RPG magazine out there should focus on RPGs.

However, I think chunks of fiction should be interspersed into articles (or perhaps be used to lead into an article or finish an article) to help illustrate and enrich the descriptive text and crunch. Flavour is always good. Use fiction as a tool to help make your articles come to life instead of presenting fiction as a stand-alone segment.

You might want to consider a bit of a reverse approach to this as well, where you have fiction, but end it in a section on game stats to support the fiction.

Take chances. Dare to have personality and flavour. For every person who is turned off by an article with personality, odds are several others read it and thought it was cool. Even if an article bombs, at least people remember it and reacted to it because it wasn't bland and forgettable.

Agreed! I think you can mix it up some, too, by having a few flavor articles interspersed with more generic articles.

For example - Yet another prestige class... sigh... ok, make me care about it and want to use it! I dare you. Make it exciting. Not just mechanically powerful, but make me want to roleplay one. Do that in the space you would would otherwise use to present 3 other bland prestige classes and I will be much more interested in buying Dragon.

One example fairly recently that I thought was good was the article on the Cormyr prestige classes. It's been years since I've played in the Realms, but that article made me want to again, and in an area I've never played in before.

I suppose in the end, I want Dragon to grab me, make me pay attention and most of all make me think about my game in new ways.

Amen.

It should also focus not only on newer gamers, but also provide something for established gamers as well. After years of roleplaying, it's hard to find something that just grabs you.

 

[dpmcalister]

(Sad day for me when I found out AEC was dropping their Spycraft RPG line for a Spycraft CCG line.)

Although I'm not part of the Spycraft RPG Design Team, I can say with certainty that this isn't happening. The Spycraft CCG is out and Spycraft v2 (the RPG) is being released next year. So, it (and by default, Living Spycraft) will be around for a long time yet.

 

[Psychic Warrior]

I used to buy Dragon religiously back in the early-mid 80s until I moved away from 1e to other rpgs. 3e brought me back but I've been mostly dissappointed with what Dragon has become. Why?

snip excellent points they are all correct and I agreed with every single one of them

I suppose in the end, I want Dragon to grab me, make me pay attention and most of all make me think about my game in new ways. No forumlaic crunch, nothing unrelated to roleplaying D&D and no marketing material masquerading as genuine articles (ads are ads, articles are articles, preview articles are just ads).

That's it in a nutshell - Dragon should make me want to roleplay D&D and should be about roleplaying D&D. Nothing more and nothing less.

Azul - you have stated my feelings exactly. Dragon, back in the day, had some outstanding articles (anyone remember A History of a Game that Failed?) that were focused on role playing, so-called 'fluff' with little game mechanics. Read issues 30 to about 99, they have some of the best rpg ariticles that are still relevant today. Best of Dragon 1-3 still get pulled out by me on occasion to re-read an article on a paladin's faith, the cultures of the demi-humans and a host of other topics. That is a stunning display of longevity.

I don't want ot see the elimination of all rules-heavy articles but it seemed, when I stopped buying Dragon around issue 300, that I would scream if I saw another prestige class or feat heavy article. If you really want to do stuff like previews (again Azul hits it bang on - previews are bloated ads and nothing more) give us ecology articles for monsters in the new book. Or detail a place setting in it. Something other than 'omg- this roxxors!' which is all preview articles are nowadays.