Why _DON'T_ You Buy Dragon Magazine?
- Thread starter Erik Mona
- Start date
Eremite
Explorer
1. Dragon needs an index. Any time I see a thread like this I post this as a suggestion. Frankly, it has to be done if this magazine is to continue.
2. Rules material needs to be playtested. Heck, get the guys who post at the character optimisation board at WotC's website to tear any new rules content apart (just make sure you have an editor who can translate their work back into English... with spelling, grammar, syntax, punctuation etc...).
3. Fiction wastes paper.
2. Rules material needs to be playtested. Heck, get the guys who post at the character optimisation board at WotC's website to tear any new rules content apart (just make sure you have an editor who can translate their work back into English... with spelling, grammar, syntax, punctuation etc...).
3. Fiction wastes paper.
Horishijin
First Post
I let my subscription lapse within the last year, and within the last week tossed out a huge stack of magazines which had collected since 3e came out. I needed the space.
My chief complaint was that frequently the magazine was essentially an advertisement for the latest D&D hardcover to come out. We usually got some monsters, spells, or prestige classes which didn't make it into the hardcover to act as a teaser-spoiler for the new product. I did not like the feeling that I was paying for advertising.
Another reason is Eberron. I have absolutely no intentions of collecting that campaign setting, and I let my subscription run when I sensed that more and more pages of the magazine where going to be spent supporting that line.
My chief complaint was that frequently the magazine was essentially an advertisement for the latest D&D hardcover to come out. We usually got some monsters, spells, or prestige classes which didn't make it into the hardcover to act as a teaser-spoiler for the new product. I did not like the feeling that I was paying for advertising.
Another reason is Eberron. I have absolutely no intentions of collecting that campaign setting, and I let my subscription run when I sensed that more and more pages of the magazine where going to be spent supporting that line.
Angel Tarragon
Dawn Dragon
I lost my subscription this year...thanks to my mom. She told me she would have sent in the check for me, but now I have to wait until at least January. I have bought too many issues of Dragon and Dungeon off the magazine shelves and have decided that I am better oof, that way I can get 12 issues of Dungeon at newstand price of about five.
The only things that ticks me off are : 1) I just learned from Dragon 326 that Elminster's Guide to the Realms will no longer be a mothly feature. 2) Blasted fiction.
Let me say that I have been a fan of the Forgotten Realms since 1st Edition. I will definetely miss the column.
Secondly, if I want to read fiction, I'll drudge out a dusty old book that deserves some face time.
The only things that ticks me off are : 1) I just learned from Dragon 326 that Elminster's Guide to the Realms will no longer be a mothly feature. 2) Blasted fiction.
Let me say that I have been a fan of the Forgotten Realms since 1st Edition. I will definetely miss the column.
Secondly, if I want to read fiction, I'll drudge out a dusty old book that deserves some face time.
I recently decided to stick to my local gamestore when my subscriptions expired. I eagerly await each new issue of Dungeon but today only buy Dragon every now and then.
I have all the crunch I need, unless I am looking for something every specific (very rarely), although new monsters is always nice. The only thing that interest me in Dragon these days is the comics (Zaragorn in great!) and FR material. I always look at the magazine index to see is there is a cool FR article, if I find one, I buy the magazine.
I have all the crunch I need, unless I am looking for something every specific (very rarely), although new monsters is always nice. The only thing that interest me in Dragon these days is the comics (Zaragorn in great!) and FR material. I always look at the magazine index to see is there is a cool FR article, if I find one, I buy the magazine.
Arkhandus
First Post
Aye, thanks for asking our opinions here. I've enjoyed reading Dragon for the last five years, but there are certainly a few things about it that have changed over the last year or two that only seem to have diminished my interest in it, unfortunately, leaving me with less reading material some months since I don't subscribe and only buy issues that seem interesting. You asked to hear what things cause folks to forgo buying Dragon, so my post may seem pessimistic, but I really do enjoy the mag usually. {:^D
I used to buy most new issues of Dragon after 3rd Edition came out, but couldn't afford a subscription. Some issues just didn't seem worth getting either, as their theme was too focused on something I didn't care for (i.e. I apparently missed out on a few good articles in the Dragon and Dungeon/Polyhedron issues that advertised having Vile Content, as I didn't know they also had some good materials like Mecha Crusade, and the Vile Content label just turned me away upon seeing the issues in the bookstore).
The price is fine in my opinion, but not for issues that appear to only have two or so decent articles when I glance through them on the magazine rack, so I don't buy any issues that don't look like they'll give me a decent value for my dollars. I've liked the themed issues generally, but some weren't worth my while because they devoted too much content to subjects I wasn't interested in, and the newest issues of Dragon have alleviated that somewhat with the lesser degree of content focused on their individual themes.
However, the newest issues also have much less content in most articles, and are less useful that way, especially since some of the interesting articles of yore have been removed or at least greatly reduced in frequency (Up On A Soapbox, the occasional short fiction, Dungeoncraft, The Play's The Thing, etc.). And as others have mentioned, the comics are a bit more sparse and Dragonmirth is gone, which was always a funny little diversion. The recent articles relating to novels and video/computer games have been rather uninteresting from my perspective, though I wouldn't mind so much if they were articles of fiction related to the games/novels.
This last year's focus on Eberron has also been a turn-off to me, that left me ignoring several issues, because I'm not willing to spend another $60-90 on the Revised core rules and then the other 3.5 supplements, at least not for a couple more years now, because I already spent enough on 3.0 material and enjoy it quite well enough. Dragon issues since 3.5's release have been less useful to me as a result, especially the ones focusing too much on Eberron which I will not pick up or use for at least another year or two. Until then, these issues with all the space wasted on Eberron and 3.5-only articles are not worth my money, and I won't spend money now just to get something I might, possibly, use a few years later. I'll buy 3.5 materials when 3.5 has quality updates to the 3.0 materials I've bought, allowing me to use the books I already have for newer campaigns, and when 3.5 has more worthwhile content added; Complete Warrior and its ilk appear to have reprinted too much broken crud without even a passing attempt to make it useable, and I don't trust the other content of such a book in those circumstances. The Frenzied Berserker, Wu Jen, Shugenja, and many other reprinted classes/prestige classes have been left more or less untouched and just as broken (FB) or crippled (Wuj/Shu) as they were in 3.0. Without any real effort put into making much stuff from 3.0's better books (OA, T&B, S&F, for example) Revised for balance/playability in 3.5, I don't have much faith in this past year's 3.5 books right now, nor this coming year's books. Anyway.....
I have to say, I rather dislike the new format for Dragon, and felt it was perfectly fine and appealing to see before this dratted new newspaper-like format. It used to be varied in backgrounds and nicer on the eyes, never bland or eye-straining for me, and the art has always been good. I liked the old logo, but the new one looks like it's supposed to appeal to kids who are still learning to read, whereas the old logo was stylish and cool. {:^D Now I have to read through bland black-on-white text just like the college textbooks I must read each semester, with dull and minimal borders/variety/etc.
Lately, at least moreso than before the new format was introduced, the covers, tables of contents, and preview sidebars for the next issue have been rather meager and undescriptive, making it hard to decide if the current or next issue is worth getting. Instead I have to go back to the bookstore a couple times a month to check if a new issue is out and see if I can discern it's value/usefulness by what little is mentioned on the cover and table of contents, and with a very brief flip through the pages. This usually isn't worth it, so I often pass up issues that are too meager/vague about their content, either on the cover or in last month's preview. Thus, for instance, another reason I didn't catch the Dungeon/Polyhedron issue with Mecha Crusade *weeping* because of similar problems with learning about that mag's current/upcoming content. Likewise how I missed out on the issue of Dragon with Bahamut and Tiamat, and more recently the issue with the Synod race that was part of the Expanded Psionics Handbook previews in Dragon....
Well, I hope the ENWorlders' feedback helps at least a bit in improving Dragon or Dungeon (( maybe bring back Polyhedron to some extent.....? as a quarterly even...? {:^D )), I'll keep reading as long as I find a good issue every few months at least.
I used to buy most new issues of Dragon after 3rd Edition came out, but couldn't afford a subscription. Some issues just didn't seem worth getting either, as their theme was too focused on something I didn't care for (i.e. I apparently missed out on a few good articles in the Dragon and Dungeon/Polyhedron issues that advertised having Vile Content, as I didn't know they also had some good materials like Mecha Crusade, and the Vile Content label just turned me away upon seeing the issues in the bookstore).
The price is fine in my opinion, but not for issues that appear to only have two or so decent articles when I glance through them on the magazine rack, so I don't buy any issues that don't look like they'll give me a decent value for my dollars. I've liked the themed issues generally, but some weren't worth my while because they devoted too much content to subjects I wasn't interested in, and the newest issues of Dragon have alleviated that somewhat with the lesser degree of content focused on their individual themes.
However, the newest issues also have much less content in most articles, and are less useful that way, especially since some of the interesting articles of yore have been removed or at least greatly reduced in frequency (Up On A Soapbox, the occasional short fiction, Dungeoncraft, The Play's The Thing, etc.). And as others have mentioned, the comics are a bit more sparse and Dragonmirth is gone, which was always a funny little diversion. The recent articles relating to novels and video/computer games have been rather uninteresting from my perspective, though I wouldn't mind so much if they were articles of fiction related to the games/novels.
This last year's focus on Eberron has also been a turn-off to me, that left me ignoring several issues, because I'm not willing to spend another $60-90 on the Revised core rules and then the other 3.5 supplements, at least not for a couple more years now, because I already spent enough on 3.0 material and enjoy it quite well enough. Dragon issues since 3.5's release have been less useful to me as a result, especially the ones focusing too much on Eberron which I will not pick up or use for at least another year or two. Until then, these issues with all the space wasted on Eberron and 3.5-only articles are not worth my money, and I won't spend money now just to get something I might, possibly, use a few years later. I'll buy 3.5 materials when 3.5 has quality updates to the 3.0 materials I've bought, allowing me to use the books I already have for newer campaigns, and when 3.5 has more worthwhile content added; Complete Warrior and its ilk appear to have reprinted too much broken crud without even a passing attempt to make it useable, and I don't trust the other content of such a book in those circumstances. The Frenzied Berserker, Wu Jen, Shugenja, and many other reprinted classes/prestige classes have been left more or less untouched and just as broken (FB) or crippled (Wuj/Shu) as they were in 3.0. Without any real effort put into making much stuff from 3.0's better books (OA, T&B, S&F, for example) Revised for balance/playability in 3.5, I don't have much faith in this past year's 3.5 books right now, nor this coming year's books. Anyway.....
I have to say, I rather dislike the new format for Dragon, and felt it was perfectly fine and appealing to see before this dratted new newspaper-like format. It used to be varied in backgrounds and nicer on the eyes, never bland or eye-straining for me, and the art has always been good. I liked the old logo, but the new one looks like it's supposed to appeal to kids who are still learning to read, whereas the old logo was stylish and cool. {:^D Now I have to read through bland black-on-white text just like the college textbooks I must read each semester, with dull and minimal borders/variety/etc.
Lately, at least moreso than before the new format was introduced, the covers, tables of contents, and preview sidebars for the next issue have been rather meager and undescriptive, making it hard to decide if the current or next issue is worth getting. Instead I have to go back to the bookstore a couple times a month to check if a new issue is out and see if I can discern it's value/usefulness by what little is mentioned on the cover and table of contents, and with a very brief flip through the pages. This usually isn't worth it, so I often pass up issues that are too meager/vague about their content, either on the cover or in last month's preview. Thus, for instance, another reason I didn't catch the Dungeon/Polyhedron issue with Mecha Crusade *weeping* because of similar problems with learning about that mag's current/upcoming content. Likewise how I missed out on the issue of Dragon with Bahamut and Tiamat, and more recently the issue with the Synod race that was part of the Expanded Psionics Handbook previews in Dragon....
Well, I hope the ENWorlders' feedback helps at least a bit in improving Dragon or Dungeon (( maybe bring back Polyhedron to some extent.....? as a quarterly even...? {:^D )), I'll keep reading as long as I find a good issue every few months at least.
wingsandsword
Legend
Actually, I agree with you 100%, I don't like Eberron, don't read anything related to Eberron, and my eyes immediately slip past any article dealing with it (PC golems and shapeshifters, and a core class specialist wizard devoted to magic item creation? No Thanks).Shade said:
Now, on to my personal general complaints. I started buying Dragon at issue #287 because it had translations of Planescape to 3e (timed to coincide with the Manual of the Planes). I stopped buying it about three months ago because I just realized I was plunking down $7 a month for something I just wasn't getting any benefit from for my game and no real entertainment from.
My wish list for Dragon:
1. No fiction. Sorry, I can pick up fantasy/D&D novels lots of places. I want role playing games, not fiction.
2. Less "crunch". Dragon material is famous for being broken or just poorly implemented, I understand you don't have as much a chance to playtest things, but some things look outrageous just on the surface. That and there are enough templates, rules, spells and feats to do just about anything you could want with D&D.
3. More DMing stuff. I don't like how the DMing material got moved to Dungeon. Dungeon should just be for adventures IMHO, I don't want prefab adventures but I'm not going to buy 2 magazines to get my D&D material.
4. Historic stuff. I remember fondly the few articles about doing Robin Hood, or Arthurian era, or any other historic/mythical genres with D&D. We've seen all the high-fantasy stuff countless times, what about D&D in ancient Rome, or . And a fistful of quickly bolted together PrC's and feats don't replace some honest advice and discussion about the setting and how to run it properly (see #2).
5. Old Setting stuff. I personally like it when old settings are revisited (the Campaign Classics issue last year was one of my favorites ever, and despite the controversy, I loved the Dark Sun redux). D&D has a deep well of settings and lore to delve into, please go back to it more often.
6. Other WotC d20 Support. I know Dragon is right now only about D&D, but the occasional article for d20 Modern or (Lucasfilm willing) Star Wars RPG would certainly get my suppport (I've not bought an issue of Dungeon since Polyhedron left it).
7. Subscription Price. Someone else mentioned this, that Dragon subscriptions cost an awful lot compared to other magazine subscriptions. I even had a non-gaming friend point that out to me last week when she was over at my apartment and saw a Dragon subscription card on the table (having fallen out of an issue) and marvelled at the cost compared to what she pays for magazine subscriptions. If there is no real way to lower the cost, could you please enlighten us on the details of the Publishing industry about this?
8. Paying for advertising. So many issues seemed like a big expensive promotional piece for the latest hardcover, and 90% of the time what was in there could easily be left out (how many ninja prestige classes do we really need?). I don't really like paying a lot for a magazine that seems to just be promotional material for a book that I was either already going to get or had no interest in (never has Dragon tie-in material made any influence of my purchases).
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
I was a subscriber to Dragon for a LONG time and have pretty much every issue from the mid 40s to 170s. I let my subscription lapse about 10 years ago and haven't had an urge to resubscribe since. I pick up the occasional issue at my FLGS based on specific interests.
So why did I let my sub lapse? A few reasons. jmucchiello had a few good comments about outgrowing it that resonated with me. These days, I see so much stuff that's rehashing ideas I saw 15 years ago and I don't need it.
I think Horishijin also has a good point. I started really losing interest when Dragon became a marketing tool for the latest TSR product (and now WOTC). That was partly because so much of what TSR was producing was pretty lame, but it also meant that anything new I liked had one big burst of articles and then nothing. I would have gotten more use of out of some issues if the information on different settings or types of crunch were spaced out better. While the number of articles of use might not have changed, I would have built up less resentment at having completely useless issues from time to time.
I also started to lose interest when Dragon became a solely D&D magazine rather than a general gaming magazine. I picked up games because of reviews and articles in Dragon. They made a Traveller and Squad Leader player out of me. Now, there are very few good ways to get broad gaming content and I think it's encouraging too many players to overspecialize in one game rather than broaden their horizons with other games. Reversing the decision to be D&D only is probably the one necessary requirement to get me to resubscribe and I'm pretty certain it's a decision you guys won't be making.
So why did I let my sub lapse? A few reasons. jmucchiello had a few good comments about outgrowing it that resonated with me. These days, I see so much stuff that's rehashing ideas I saw 15 years ago and I don't need it.
I think Horishijin also has a good point. I started really losing interest when Dragon became a marketing tool for the latest TSR product (and now WOTC). That was partly because so much of what TSR was producing was pretty lame, but it also meant that anything new I liked had one big burst of articles and then nothing. I would have gotten more use of out of some issues if the information on different settings or types of crunch were spaced out better. While the number of articles of use might not have changed, I would have built up less resentment at having completely useless issues from time to time.
I also started to lose interest when Dragon became a solely D&D magazine rather than a general gaming magazine. I picked up games because of reviews and articles in Dragon. They made a Traveller and Squad Leader player out of me. Now, there are very few good ways to get broad gaming content and I think it's encouraging too many players to overspecialize in one game rather than broaden their horizons with other games. Reversing the decision to be D&D only is probably the one necessary requirement to get me to resubscribe and I'm pretty certain it's a decision you guys won't be making.
Jaws
First Post
Here is how I look at it. Dungeon has everything that I want. D&D adventures at a great price. The return of the maps available for download is what got me to subscribe again. (Now if you could have the subscribers get their issues at the same time as my FLGS and you would have a super happy customer.)
Dragon on the other hand is the same old, same old. You got me to buy one issue recently. The one with Neil Gaiman (bland and short) and Cthulhu (nothing I didn't already know).
I don't need more feats, spells, and especially prestige classes. I don't play the miniatures game. The art has gotten worse (in Dungeon too).
If you had coverage of other D&D-like worlds like Dawnforge, Midnight, and Oathbound--and then it would have to be mostly flavor, little crunch.
Peace and smiles
j.
Dragon on the other hand is the same old, same old. You got me to buy one issue recently. The one with Neil Gaiman (bland and short) and Cthulhu (nothing I didn't already know).
I don't need more feats, spells, and especially prestige classes. I don't play the miniatures game. The art has gotten worse (in Dungeon too).
If you had coverage of other D&D-like worlds like Dawnforge, Midnight, and Oathbound--and then it would have to be mostly flavor, little crunch.
Peace and smiles
j.
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