D&D General Why a PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content is a Bad Idea

[Justice and Rule]

How about this.

We can go back and forth giving examples of how sensitive elements have been treated by businesses (you showing how they repackage them as learning opportunities at cost and me showing how they just get rid of them to avoid complaints) and whoever runs out of examples first is closer to what WotC wouldnt do.

I'll start....the D&D episode of Community.

We already know what they did last time: they stuck on a disclaimer. I feel like that trumps anything anyone else has done because that's Wizards of the Coast. They've gotten critiqued over not going far enough on Strahd Revamped, but as far as I can tell they haven't removed that in a fit of pique.

I feel like everyone treating them with kiddie gloves misses that occasionally they don't mess things up, and acting like every corporation will always overreact to any sort of critique just ends up as an excuse to never do anything, lest you lose it completely.

 

[Umbran]

This is one thing I agree with you on. I find it interesting that @Dungeonosophy actually refuses to engage in genuine conversation about his idea.

Mod Note:
Personal jabs aren't exactly "genuine conversation" either.

So, stop making them. Thanks.

 

[LordEntrails]

A petition? A demand for the book to be changed to include a conversation on it's cultural affect? I'm not sure there's a particularly concise word for what I'd call it?

Dang, that sounds like a demand for censorship. Maybe not a legal or technical definition, but pretty darn close for a conversational definition.
Edit: edited to add the full quote to comply with moderation. Bolded part mine to indicate it's the part of the post that I am commenting on. i.e the poster is saying they want the book to be changed. It doesn't matter what the change is, that can be considered censorship.

 

[Voadam]

On some level I agree, but it's only on a technical level. We're kinda crossing wires - and maybe cultures - a bit here.

I have generally seen significantly more concern over the actions of governments and generally significantly more powerful private interests when it comes to censorship than an action like this; it wouldn't register. Ireland also has quite strong libel rules, which most wouldn't comment nor care about.

Probably so. I am from America which has historically and currently had big non-government, non-corporation book banning movements based on claims of books having bad stuff in them and strong strains of people both for restricting things and against restricting things.

 

[Umbran]

Dang, that sounds like a demand for censorship. Maybe not a legal or technical definition, but pretty darn close for a conversational definition.

Mod note:
The guy who wants "genuine conversation" selectively editing away inconvenient parts of a sentence? How genuine is that?

Keep to the high road, folks. Thanks.

 

[Hussar]

I put this in the other thread, but, how exactly is @Dungeonosophy's point 7 not rewriting the book?

It is 100% meant to be official material - that the bad parts of the Gazateer are rewritten from an in-universe perspective to show how the problematic parts are all lies and propaganda. That it's in a separate booklet in no way means that it's not a rewrite. It doesn't matter that it's in a separate book, it's still replacing the existing text and changing it.

How is that not a "rewrite" of a book?

If WotC published a book that said that it is now 100% official that Waterdeep does not exist in Forgotten Realms that would be a rewrite of the FR would it not? Doesn't every source book, to some degree, modify earlier source books and rewrite their message?

 

[haakon1]

I am probably going to regret this ... but ....

I think that some of the frustration regarding the other thread is because:

1. The OP had a very-lengthy thread in the past that was about this exact same topic. So the topic is already very well known.

2. In addition, the OP is well-known for loving Mystara. Which is cool, I love Greyhawk. People like what they like.

3. Finally, the OP has had a number of recent comments and entire threads that were ... not kind ... about WoTC and about specific people at WoTC, some of which were shut down (related to the OGL).


Based upon the above, a person might think that the OP, who would like WoTC to do something with Mystara (like release a version of Thar that isn't painful), and also wants to rake WoTC in general and Kyle Brink specifically over the coals given the whole OGL thing, is bootstrapping the OGL controversy to get people riled up about this personal pet project that did not receive traction before.

Which is totally allowed! But might not be well taken by everyone.

I missed a lot of this, but I believe you.

And yes, Greyhawk is the best.

 

[ReshiIRE]

It's a random outside person commenting on how this product is racist and problematic. How is that designed to do anything other than sell fewer copies of the game? To stigmatize people who buy it? Since this is a problematic book, selling less of it is the only good outcome, right?

I can certainly get that not everyone is going to agree with me on this, but I don't see any reason adding that thesis will do anything more than the disclaimer, other than giving the writer some notoriety.

And just as a point of emphasis: I don't own this book and have no interest in it as a product. I simply find that it's a lot easier to disagree at this point than after it's started to happen.

Criticism isn't censorship. Criticising that something is racist and problematic isn't censorship. Are you suggesting it is because it would be in the same product? Or does it even matter if it is in the same product to you - would this being outside the product being censorship?

And how one would be stigmatised for buying it? Because there would be something criticising the book???

Like - do you think that books that have elements like this - criticism or historical notes attached to them, disclaimers, etc - are being censored, because people are talking about them further?

I see adding a thesis by someone who's done the research is helpful, because yeah, there are going to be people unaware of the content, and letting people know about the issues is a good idea.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

And yes, Greyhawk is the best.

It totally is! Which is why I am completely sympathetic to why other people might have a love for Mystara/ The Known World. And I hope that Mystara fans, like Greyhawk fans, get a rebooted setting for 5e and the ability to publish more material (through DMs Guild or something similar). I just don't think demanding this of the older material is wise, given that it is all ... a product of its time.

PS- If you didn't see it before, I've written about Greyhawk in the past. See Part 5.

 

[Justice and Rule]

It totally is! Which is why I am completely sympathetic to why other people might have a love for Mystara/ The Known World. And I hope that Mystara fans, like Greyhawk fans, get a rebooted setting for 5e and the ability to publish more material (through DMs Guild or something similar). I just don't think demanding this of the older material is wise, given that it is all ... a product of its time.

PS- If you didn't see it before, I've written about Greyhawk in the past. See Part 5.

I know they wouldn't do it, but it would be nice to see Wizards subcontract out different worlds to some major 3PPs, given how many settings they have in their pocket. Again, very unlikely, but would be a nice way of actually getting some of these worlds out of vault.