D&D General Why a PETITION: Stop Hasbro's hurtful content is a Bad Idea

[EzekielRaiden]

If you're talking about the post by Deset Gled, here it is.

I've seen it on other forums, so it's definitely not just ENWorld. Couldn't say where it originated.

 

[AnotherGuy]

I've seen it on other forums, so it's definitely not just ENWorld. Couldn't say where it originated.

You're saying Deset's post is on other forums too? If it is on other forums it is probably him/her posting in those other forums, right? Feel like I've misunderstood something here.

All I meant was I agree with his/her conclusion in that post - that its best not to use +threads for news & announcements.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

You're saying Deset's post is on other forums too? If it is on other forums it is probably him/her posting in those other forums, right? Feel like I've misunderstood something here.

All I meant was I agree with his/her conclusion in that post - that its best not to use +threads for news & announcements.

Deset's post mentions how they don't know where "plus threads" came from. I can't reply to them and see no reason to @ them (they've blocked me), so I responded to you instead.

 

[Oofta]

I don't really see it as an abuse given how quickly that whole thread basically got reflexively dogpiled with people who were claiming the OP wanted something they specifically said they didn't. To me, that seems kind of smart given what actually happened.



I mean, by that definition of the thread I very much am not, which is why the topic of the thread is so important to make these sorts of judgements. But if you feel I am, feel free to report me.

The most likely result of a petition gaining ground would be for WOTC to simply stop making it available. No one, that I know of has stated that the OP suggested stop making GAZ10 available, but other posts in that thread have.

But yes, a lot of people disagree, if that's your definition of dog piling. I define it as "people disagree".

 

[LordEntrails]

Not gonna lie, bold strategy.

You are wrong on just about everything about me. And you are exceptionally offensive in how you do it. But, you seem equally skilled in making personal attacks while possible staying within the rules of the forum.

If you actually want to engage politely, let me know.

 

[Umbran]

Mod Note:
Folks,

Some of you are effectively trying to respond to posts that you cannot read. In the process, you are making a hash of what was said - not surprising, because you can't see the original.

If someone has ignored you, that means they don't want your input. Please respect that. Don't try to answer their questions (like, they've ignored you - they won't see your answer anyway). Similarly, please don't try to be middleman - the telephone game is a pain.

 

[Umbran]

You are wrong on just about everything about me.

So, if I may...

This is a thread about why a petition is bad.

You opined that "Personally I find attempts to revise and hide the past distasteful."
and "Second, I think spending any time re-writing a legacy product that is sub-par in the first place is a waste of limited resources."
Is is true that these are your opinions. Nobody is arguing that.

However, in reference to the topic, these are non sequiturs. The petition doesn't ask for these things! So, it is not clear why you raise those opinions in this context, as they don't speak to the petition.

In the context of the thread, it is not strange for people to assume that you are speaking to the petition. The result is that it reads like you are implying that the petition does ask for those things. From his side, this misunderstanding makes your statements look like misinformation.

So, with this basic misunderstanding, the two of you have started butting heads.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I am probably going to regret this ... but ....

I think that some of the frustration regarding the other thread is because:

1. The OP had a very-lengthy thread in the past that was about this exact same topic. So the topic is already very well known.

2. In addition, the OP is well-known for loving Mystara. Which is cool, I love Greyhawk. People like what they like.

3. Finally, the OP has had a number of recent comments and entire threads that were ... not kind ... about WoTC and about specific people at WoTC, some of which were shut down (related to the OGL).


Based upon the above, a person might think that the OP, who would like WoTC to do something with Mystara (like release a version of Thar that isn't painful), and also wants to rake WoTC in general and Kyle Brink specifically over the coals given the whole OGL thing, is bootstrapping the OGL controversy to get people riled up about this personal pet project that did not receive traction before.

Which is totally allowed! But might not be well taken by everyone.

 

[Justice and Rule]

If you're talking about the post by Deset Gled, here it is.

Ah, appreciated. And I'm not sure: I've seen so many threads get dragged completely down and off-topic by people who were less interested in discussing what we were talking about and more about some tangent on it that the cost-benefit is positive to me. It's definitely a cost, though.

The most likely result of a petition gaining ground would be for WOTC to simply stop making it available. No one, that I know of has stated that the OP suggested stop making GAZ10 available, but other posts in that thread have.

If it was the case that any sort of push would just get them to take it off the market in the first place, then it wouldn't be up right now because I'm fairly sure it didn't originally have the boilerplate on it. This whole idea is premised on an action that we've never actually seen them take and thus I have doubts that this defense is anything but trying to create a fear that Wizards will just run away with their stuff if anyone says something mean to them.

But yes, a lot of people disagree, if that's your definition of dog piling. I define it as "people disagree".

No, my definition of dogpiling is people piling into a topic to attack an OP without actually engaging with the topic. There are still people thinking that the OP wants to rewrite or censor the book, which is demonstrably false but still gets traction. You call that "a lot of people disagree" and I call that "people reacting without reading".

You are wrong on just about everything about me. And you are exceptionally offensive in how you do it. But, you seem equally skilled in making personal attacks while possible staying within the rules of the forum.

If you actually want to engage politely, let me know.

@Umbran has already covered what I thought: your comments do not come off as unrelated to the original topic but literally in relation to the topic as a list of reasons why you cannot support it. Combined with the fact that you originally said that you did not read it but were going off what other people said about it (posted here) and I think my read on it was ultimately very reasonable.

If it is indeed the case that these were non sequiturs, then I think it's just best we stop this conversation. At this point, I do not know which of your comments are meant to relate to the topic and which ones aren't, and I don't intend to go through and individually litigate them all so I can be sure of their intent and meaning.

I am probably going to regret this ... but ....

I think that some of the frustration regarding the other thread is because:

1. The OP had a very-lengthy thread in the past that was about this exact same topic. So the topic is already very well known.

2. In addition, the OP is well-known for loving Mystara. Which is cool, I love Greyhawk. People like what they like.

3. Finally, the OP has had a number of recent comments and entire threads that were ... not kind ... about WoTC and about specific people at WoTC, some of which were shut down (related to the OGL).


Based upon the above, a person might think that the OP, who would like WoTC to do something with Mystara (like release a version of Thar that isn't painful), and also wants to rake WoTC in general and Kyle Brink specifically over the coals given the whole OGL thing, is bootstrapping the OGL controversy to get people riled up about this personal pet project that did not receive traction before.

Which is totally allowed! But might not be well taken by everyone.

The funny thing here is that no one has really mentioned the OGL part much, it's largely all about starting a "+" thread on it. That is the vast majority of the discourse here.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

I would also mention this, which I found interesting-

How Copyright Laws Caused the Roald Dahl Problem

Sensitivity reading, yes, but not for old books

popula.com

I credit the delightful pull quote-
Philip Pullman was closer to the mark than most critics, on BBC’s Radio 4. He advised young readers to “read all of these wonderful authors who are writing today, who don’t get as much of a look-in because of the massive commercial gravity of people like Roald Dahl.”

As a general rule, I think that effort is much better spent leaving old works alone, and investing effort in new works. Keep GAZ10 (and the rest of the "old Mystara") as it is, warts and all - and old Mystara had a lot of warts given that large portions of it were based on real-world cultures.

But make new worlds. New lands. Heck, if you want, make a whole new Mystara using sensitivity readers. Things are always a product of their time, and whatever we are doing today, no matter how well-intentioned, will likely have things that 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now will be considered outre and offensive. It's important to recognize that products are of their time, and read them with that knowledge (or read only what is current).