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Why ALWAYS the same damned cliche?

Dogbrain

First Post
Over and over, it's the same damned cliche in science fiction movies and TV:

The vast and evil tyrannical empire vs. the noble and enlighted rebellion.

Once, twice, five-hundred times, it might be okay, but now it's just oldness and tiredness--a sign of a complete lack of imagination. Even Firefly decided to use this tired old cliche--Whedon could have done better, and I take it as a sign that he wasn't really trying when he decided to use such an overdone theme.

How about a TV show that features a rebellion that is all about imposing its tyrannical will upon a fairly benign, if not all sweetness and light, interstellar republic? Indeed, the rebellion attracts many bright, interesting, quirky individuals. They're represented by the main characters of the show, who are played by attractive actors in suitably tight clothing. The characters are given great interpersonal development. There could even be lots of amusing banter.
They're all about "respect diversity" and "freedom", but the "freedom" is really just the "freedom" to oppress the vast majority of sapient beings, whom they all see as their "natural inferiors", and the only "diversity" they respect is that permitted to all their fellow "superior beings"--weaklings only deserve contempt. Howefver, there would not be some sort of commissar around spouting this nonsense. Instead, we would be presented the universe from their point of view, since they're the main characters. Clever viewers would pick up on it sooner than the drooling fanboys.

The republic, on the other hand, is bureaucratic and a bit stuffy. It's functionaries tend to be humorless and sticklers for procedure and rules. None of the representatives of this Republic are seen for more than an episode or two in a row, and whenever possible, less attractive actors or character actors with a history of "authority figure" roles are hired for these parts. Very little time is spent on their personal lives outside. And this republic is actually all about keeping people safe from would-be tyrants. Elections are fair and representative. Officials are usually honest and dutiful, if not always very competent or diplomatic. The considerations and opinions of ordinary people are taken into account, not merely dismissed or mollified. There is a very long (perhaps religious) tradition of public service as an honorable and sacred trust, with little room for grandstanding or self-aggrandizement, especially not at the expense of "the little people".
 

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I agree, your idea has its appeal.

Well, if you look at Startrek and the Federation from a... "darker" perspective, you might already have your series.

I mean, there are a bunch of charismatic, often also good looking humans controlling a vast amount of the galaxy. Most alien species seem to be a minority in its most important arm, the Starfleet.
And the Federation is constantly opposing other empires, trying to convince them of their very own human ideals. And they also ignore the needs of the lesser advanced beings in space - no technology transfers and other help. (Prime Directive).

Well, unfortunatelly, the viewers were never smart enough to see this. :)


Mustrum Ridcully
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
I agree, your idea has its appeal.

Well, if you look at Startrek and the Federation from a... "darker" perspective, you might already have your series.

I mean, there are a bunch of charismatic, often also good looking humans controlling a vast amount of the galaxy. Most alien species seem to be a minority in its most important arm, the Starfleet.


Waaaaaayyyyy too much of a stretch. I might as well just watch the Smurfs and get the same result.
 

Dogbrain said:
Over and over, it's the same damned cliche in science fiction movies and TV:

The vast and evil tyrannical empire vs. the noble and enlighted rebellion.

Once, twice, five-hundred times, it might be okay, but now it's just oldness and tiredness--a sign of a complete lack of imagination. Even Firefly decided to use this tired old cliche--Whedon could have done better, and I take it as a sign that he wasn't really trying when he decided to use such an overdone theme.
Blame Star Wars, of course. And Firefly is North vs South; it's not even about a rebellion, it's about what happens when you're on the losing side of the rebellion.

And blame our own history. We revolted against a tyranical government and most Americans have enjoyed watching that scenario played out over and over again.
 

There are actually a lot of good kingdom and bad rebels out there; they just are usually told from the perspective of the good kingdome/republic/empire. We have the previously mentioned Star Fleet; we have the Pre-Empire Republic of Star Wars, and we have the good kingdom of a thousand fantasy realms, just to name a few. As for your suggestion, I don't know how good looking you would call them as a collective, but Fight Club sounds very similar to your suggestion otherwise.
 

Here lies the problem-

In general, the audience prefers main characters to whom they can be sympathetic. Rat bastards get our attention, but it's generally in order to see where, how, and why they get their just deserts. They don't get our love and devotion. So, your main characters tend to be good guys.

Bright and intelligent good guys should rather quickly see the rebellion's true aims, and quit. Or else, they are just more rat bastards, and the audience won't like them. So, you're either limited to dumb main characters, or a relatively short-lived plot.
 

I'm not sure what the "hook" for such a story would be, though. A charismatic but oppressive rebellion versus a boring but fair governing body... and what? Just throwing the cliche in reverse doesn't help much.

Not to mention you'd make the viewers who "get it" uncomfortable. Suddenly, they're rooting for the oppressors? Not a good way to keep viewership.
 

Dogbrain said:
I might as well just watch the Smurfs and get the same result.

You got something you wanna say?

I'm reminded of the root beer scene from DS9, though, where Quark introduces Garak to the drink...

Q: What do you think?
G: It's vile!
Q: I know. It's so bubbly, and cloying, and happy.
G: ... just like the Federation!
Q: And you know what's really frightening? If you drink enough of it... you begin to like it.
G: It's insidious!
Q: ... just like the Federation.

-Hyp.
 


I trimmed some of your post, as it didn't all fit, but much of it did.

Dogbrain said:
How about a TV show that features a rebellion that is all about imposing its tyrannical will upon a fairly benign, if not all sweetness and light, interstellar republic? Indeed, the rebellion attracts many bright, interesting, quirky individuals . . . The characters are given great interpersonal development. There could even be lots of amusing banter.
They're all about "respect diversity" and "freedom", but the "freedom" is really just the "freedom" to oppress the vast majority of sapient beings, whom they all see as their "natural inferiors", and the only "diversity" they respect is that permitted to all their fellow "superior beings"--weaklings only deserve contempt. Howefver, there would not be some sort of commissar around spouting this nonsense. Instead, we would be presented the universe from their point of view, since they're the main characters.

The republic, on the other hand, is bureaucratic and a bit stuffy. It's functionaries tend to be humorless and sticklers for procedure and rules. None of the representatives of this Republic are seen for more than an episode or two in a row, and whenever possible, less attractive actors or character actors with a history of "authority figure" roles are hired for these parts. Very little time is spent on their personal lives outside. And this republic is actually all about keeping people safe from would-be tyrants. . . . There is a very long (perhaps religious) tradition of public service as an honorable and sacred trust . . .

That, in many ways, is the universe in which the fiction of Warhammer 40,000 is placed. The talented, interesting, beautiful people are shut down ruthlessly by the Empire of Humanity because they tend ultimately to bring in Chaos, which is actually personified Evil. The people the reader most likes and with whom he most identifies are usually the very same people who must be sacrificed so that Mankind, as ugly an existence as it has, can avoid annihilation by its enemies.

Makes for a very dark place, indeed. In the far future, there is only war. And the fiction, so I've heard folks say, is not at all to everyone's tastes.

In Warhammer 40k, Luke, Han, and Leia would have been crushed by the (actually extremely competent) Space Marines (say the white armored White Consuls), led by a ruthless, dark robbed Inquisitor with enormous psychic powers, who is kept alive by bionic implants. Luke and Leia would be the Inquisitor's children, and in the last sentence of the story, the Inquisitor would reveal he knows this. And the galaxy would have been better off for it.
 

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