Why are Dire animals so slow ?

[Chacal]

In the Monster Manual (MM) the movement of a Dire animal is the same as the base animal.

Did I miss something ?

How can a Dire Tiger (up to 35 feet long according to the MM) have a base movement
of only 40ft ?

The Tiger is 9ft long (according to MM) and has also a base movement of 40ft.

Shouldn't the base movement for the dire Tiger be 160 ft ?

Furthermore, in the advancement section, increasing size don't increases base movement. If these rules work the way I
read them, we may end with an animal
that cannot move its own length in a round



Chacal

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Just because something's bigger doesn't necessarily mean that it's faster. Take me and my dog, for instance. I'm at least twice its size, and the little thing is much faster than I am. I have no problem with a tiger and a dire tiger having the same movement rate. After all, that dire tiger has a lot more body mass to get moving!

Of course, the dire tiger can probably jump higher than the ordinary tiger, but that'll be reflected in the much bigger strength bonus to jump the dire tiger is going to have over its mundane cousin.

 

[drnuncheon]

In the Monster Manual (MM) the movement of a Dire animal is the same as the base animal.

Did I miss something ?

How can a Dire Tiger (up to 35 feet long according to the MM) have a base movement
of only 40ft ?

The Tiger is 9ft long (according to MM) and has also a base movement of 40ft.

Shouldn't the base movement for the dire Tiger be 160 ft ?

Just because an animal is larger doesn't mean it can move faster. A giraffe, for example, is much larger than a horse - and with far longer legs - but it doesn't run any faster.

Even if their stride length is longer, it also takes them longer to make those steps - and they have a lot more mass to get moving, so inertia is working against them as well.

J

 

[Chacal]

Re: Re: Why are Dire animals so slow ?

Originally posted by drnuncheon
Just because an animal is larger doesn't mean it can move faster. A giraffe, for example, is much larger than a horse - and with far longer legs - but it doesn't run any faster.

I can buy this for different animals, but I really have trouble concerning normal and Huge versions of the same animal. (I Know, the physiology of such dire things is an enigma, but still)

and and Ostrich runs faster than a chicken

Even if their stride length is longer, it also takes them longer to make those steps - and they have a lot more mass to get moving, so inertia is working against them as well.

This part (they are slower) doesn't seem supported by the rules: the dire versions haven't less attacks by round than the normal ones.

I agree that strictly multiplying the base movement by the change in size isn't a very good way to do it, but keeping the same really doesn't seem right ?

Am I alone to think it's strange ?


Chacal

 

[Pielorinho]

Any of you ever see a chihuahua chasing after a German Shepherd? Guess which one runs faster?

Speed is not wholly a function of size -- but it's partly a function of size. You'll find very few land-based rat-sized critters that can outrun a land-based dog-sized critter.

In the real world, I believe the square/cube rule keeps really big landbased creatures from moving quickly (or even existing, beyond a certain size). However, this is a rule that clearly doesn't apply in a fantasy setting: nothing suggests that a dire tiger is sluggish in its movements.

I wonder if it would work to give a creature an extra 5' of movement for each size increase up to large and an extra 10' of movement for each size increase thereafter? Reduce movement rates for size reduction accordingly.

Daniel

 

[Chacal]

[BI wonder if it would work to give a creature an extra 5' of movement for each size increase up to large and an extra 10' of movement for each size increase thereafter? Reduce movement rates for size reduction accordingly.

That might work. But We first have to answer this question:
Would a halfling move 25' or 30' if it was human sized ?


Chacal

 

[Umbran]

Any of you ever see a chihuahua chasing after a German Shepherd? Guess which one runs faster?
Daniel

Yes, but compare that shepherd to a much larger dog - say, a Saint Bernard. Or, compare a standard riding horse to a clydesdale...

Simply put, the nature of movement is complicated. It isn't simply decided by size. Once you start quibbling about the detailsof biomechanics, you might as well let game-play issues be the deciding factor. Things like: Do you really want it so that the party has no chance in heck of outrunning that dire tiger?

 

[Pielorinho]

Simply put, the nature of movement is complicated. It isn't simply decided by size.

I thought I was pretty clear when I said,

Speed is not wholly a function of size -- but it's partly a function of size.

As you know, no ant-sized critter outruns a mouse; no mouse-sized critter outruns a rabbit; no rabbit outruns a wolf. Note that I'm not choosing the fastest animals for each size category. (and note also that I'm talking running speed, not flying or swimming speed. Apples to apples and all).

As for your question -- do I really want it so that the party has no chance in heck of outrunning that dire tiger -- you bet your britches I want it like that. It annoys me that a monk can outrun a bear. One of the scary things about big animals is their mobility.

The only problem I see with a system like this is that it bumps up the druid and ranger and animal-domain cleric in power. However, I don't think the boost is too bad: if the animal companion runs ahead of the party and starts beating on enemies early on, it'll be alone, apart from the party, and can fall pretty quickly.

 

[Artoomis]

Personally, I'd leave it alone.

Why?

Because it one more complication, and I think you've got enough of [those with 3e as it is.

 

[Avatar of the North]

Pielorinho
sorry your annoyed at a monk out running nearly everything in existance. But understand this. At 20th level the monk is no longer human. Though out his life he is trasforming himself to something that is not if this world and thus does break the rules of reality.