CRGreathouse
Community Supporter
Avatar of the North said:
What's more, his movement is supernatural long before then - by level 9, IIRC.
Why are Dire animals so slow ?
- Thread starter Chacal
- Start date
What's more, his movement is supernatural long before then - by level 9, IIRC.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Avatar of the North said:
True, true. But a sixth level monk IS still human (if she started off human, natch), and, IIRC, can outrun a bear. Grr. Argh.
At any rate, I like the image of a party of adventurers encountering a 30' long dire tiger, realizing it's too tough for them, and riding their horses off; even galloping at full speed, however, they realize that the tiger is slowly gaining on them....
Thirty-foot long tigers, I agree, should move faster than 10-foot-long tigers.
Daniel
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
In Canada, there was a study on the T Rex. They found it could only run 25 mph, just a little faster than a human (and it couldn't even catch Donovan Bailey, a Canadian sprinter 
Oh, and before anyone mentions it, it would catch Don when Don gets tired). Very large animals often have a hard enough time supporting their weight, much less mving quickly.
Oh, and before anyone mentions it, it would catch Don when Don gets tired). Very large animals often have a hard enough time supporting their weight, much less mving quickly.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
(Psi)SeveredHead said:
This is true, and that's why D&D doesn't have any giant insects in it: giant insect legs couldn't support the insect's weight.
Oh. Wait. D&D does have giant insects.
I'm saying that square/cube ratios (in which the area of the foot isn't sufficient to support the volume of the body) don't apply in a D&D universe. Therefore, the idea that larger animals can't move as fast shouldn't apply.
At any rate, which is a cooler image: a giant tiger moving with the same agility (and consequently much greater speed) than its normal-sized relatives, or a giant tiger that has to lumber and huff and puff its way toward you, so that its movement is not increased by its larger pace?
Me, I go for the first image. And that's what matters to me.
Daniel
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
All right, dire tigers should be really fast (colossal scorpions aren't realistic either, but I'm going to use one IMC). But not dire bears
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
(Psi)SeveredHead said:All right, dire tigers should be really fast (colossal scorpions aren't realistic either, but I'm going to use one IMC). But not dire bears
Sorry to be a butt and all insistent and everything, but wouldn't you think that a dire bear would take as many steps as a normal-sized bear? And if a normal-sized bear takes, for example 8 5' steps every six seconds, wouldn't a dire bear take maybe 8 8' steps every six seconds? And wouldn't it therefore move a little faster?
My contention is that, everything else being equal, similarly-built but differently-sized critters move at different speeds, with the bigger ones moving faster.
Nonetheless, it's not as impressive an image if the chasing animal is a bear, I agree. And ultimately that's what's most important to me.
Daniel
Lord Pendragon
First Post
Daniel, I see your point. But I think that you're mixing fantasy and real-life elements together in un-necessary and over-complicated ways. Consider the fact that D&D is the game where both the mouse and the dragon make the same 5' step. Following your logic, you'd probably have to rework the 5' step as well, since a colossal creature should, realistically, be able to adjust a lot farther than a diminutive one.
As it stands, I think the Monster Manual designers probably just looked at each monster on a case-by-case basis, and decided how fast they wanted it to move, in relation to how challenging they wanted the creature to be. I can very much see what you're saying about the real-world logic of larger creatures moving faster, but as for me, I'm content to leave it as it is. The creatures in the MM were balanced with their current speeds in mind, combined with the various other abilities they possess. Changing that means skewing the heck out of the CR system. For me, more headache than it's worth.
As it stands, I think the Monster Manual designers probably just looked at each monster on a case-by-case basis, and decided how fast they wanted it to move, in relation to how challenging they wanted the creature to be. I can very much see what you're saying about the real-world logic of larger creatures moving faster, but as for me, I'm content to leave it as it is. The creatures in the MM were balanced with their current speeds in mind, combined with the various other abilities they possess. Changing that means skewing the heck out of the CR system. For me, more headache than it's worth.
Some dire animals have their speeds modified, some don't. If you want to house rule things that's up to you but there is a forum for lobbying for house rules and this isn't it. You won't find validation for house rules here.
Dire Tigers should have 10x20 face instead of 10x30 face as a long huge creature. If the tiger was gargantuan you could argue for a speed increase within the natural scope of the rules. It is true that creatures usually gain 10' movement each size class but this can increase or decrease for specific monsters.
The dire shark moves 90' instead of 60' for a regular shark. Dire horses are faster than a heavy warhorse but are still the same size category.
This thread should be Why don't Dire Tigers have 50' instead of 40' moves.
Dire Tigers should have 10x20 face instead of 10x30 face as a long huge creature. If the tiger was gargantuan you could argue for a speed increase within the natural scope of the rules. It is true that creatures usually gain 10' movement each size class but this can increase or decrease for specific monsters.
The dire shark moves 90' instead of 60' for a regular shark. Dire horses are faster than a heavy warhorse but are still the same size category.
This thread should be Why don't Dire Tigers have 50' instead of 40' moves.
Pielorinho
Iron Fist of Pelor
Lord Pendragon said:
True; it's also true that when I sic a psychic snail on my PCs, even though it may have a movement rate of .1 foot/rnd, by the rules it could take a 5' step in combat.
In fact, that's how the psychic snail tribe in my world travels: they engage in mock combat and take a 5' step every round, thereby moving 50 times faster than they otherwise would.
I'm aware of which forum this is, Archer; thanks for pointing that out, though! I'm just not willing to be a slave to silly rules. The 5' step rule can be justified in many cases, but it gets ridiculous near the extremes.
As for the CR of the creatures: I know that my suggestion will make them tougher. I'm okay with that.
Daniel
Something would either have a move or 0 or a move of 5. If it has a move of 0 then it wouldn't get a 5' step. A snail is about as immobile as a plant. If your move is 5 then your 5' step is a ME action. You have to have at least 10 move to get 5' step as a "free" action.
5' is the smallest increment of movement for simplicity. If you can move you reasonably move a small distance in combat without triggering an AoO.
Some creatures are fast over short distances, faster than a human but a human can still avoid a bear and can stalk horses and game until they are too tired to get away.
I'm reasonably sure that if a human and a dire tiger were put in separate 10' corridors that were 8 miles long with food and magic items at the end (something to entice the human to hurry) the human could reach the end of his before the tiger.
You have to keep in mind that move applies to both combat move and overland movement. What do you do when something would move faster in combat but not further in overland movement? The designers said the tiger gets a 40' move.
5' is the smallest increment of movement for simplicity. If you can move you reasonably move a small distance in combat without triggering an AoO.
Some creatures are fast over short distances, faster than a human but a human can still avoid a bear and can stalk horses and game until they are too tired to get away.
I'm reasonably sure that if a human and a dire tiger were put in separate 10' corridors that were 8 miles long with food and magic items at the end (something to entice the human to hurry) the human could reach the end of his before the tiger.
You have to keep in mind that move applies to both combat move and overland movement. What do you do when something would move faster in combat but not further in overland movement? The designers said the tiger gets a 40' move.
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