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D&D 5E Why are folks down on the Phantom Rogue

auburn2

Adventurer
I noticed several on another thread down voted the Phantom Rogue. Why is that?

When I look at the subclass,"whispers of the dead" seems to be an awesome ability at 3rd level, allowing proficiency in any tool or skill for a day. It would seem this has all sorts of utility from identifying magic items, to making potions to figuring out how much those gems you found are worth.

Tokens of the departed seems pretty boss too, albeit at a later level.
 

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Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
If it was the survivor thread, they are popularity, not power-based.

From a power perspective, I've seen claims that Arcane Trickster makes the other subclasses not worth playing in the additional effectiveness it can bring in every pillar of the game. But that's not specific about the Phantom.

I like the Phantom, I find it flavorful and reasonably powered. It does have some very good subclasses like the Swashbuckler or the aforementioned AT to compare against, some may not think that it holds up to those.

For an Ancient Greek themed game I am in, my backup character is a phantom rogue of Hades, so I find it workable and may not be the best to talk about the dislike for it.
 


tommybahama

Adventurer
Treantmonk did a video on this subclass. I think he said the trinket things should have been a third level perk. The best stuff comes too late in the game.
 

auburn2

Adventurer
Treantmonk did a video on this subclass. I think he said the trinket things should have been a third level perk. The best stuff comes too late in the game.
Thanks I will check it out.

In general though, I find treantmonk seems to be very focused on combat in his reviews, and if that is your metric I would agree. IMO the free skill or tool proficiency switchable at every SR at 3rd level is a better feature than the soul trinkets. Not as powerful in combat, but a better feature.
 

GlassJaw

Hero
I don't get a lot of the negative voting. The Peace domain, College of Eloquence, and the Monk paths are getting down votes but the sorcerer paths are still around. 🤷‍♂️

The Path of Wild Magic does suck though.
 

I mean the phantom rogue is there sometimes, and then isn't sometimes. You never know which it will be when. Really unreliable to play with.
 

I don't get a lot of the negative voting. The Peace domain, College of Eloquence, and the Monk paths are getting down votes but the sorcerer paths are still around. 🤷‍♂️

I don't think everyone bases their vote on what's powerful, for some it's a matter of what's thematic or what's TOO powerful.

The Peace domain for instance, seems to have useful abilities but for me is wildly misnamed, it's more 'make me and my friends better at combat'. Not much there screams 'peaceful'. College Eloquence has a couple of nasty tricks - save penalties for instance - that some people believe to be broken. And lots of people seem to like the Rune Knight but to me it looks like a bit of a disorganised mess with random quasi-giant abilities stuck together in a random way that really has very little to do with runes and not that much to do with giants either.

The sorcerer paths etc might just be lasting because people aren't particularly passionate about them one way or the other!
 


"Power" is simply a non-issue for me. Theme, and how well the mechanics support it, is what matters to me. In Tasha's quite a few of the classes are simply too silly for my tastes. Others feel clumsy and inelegant (rune knight).
 

jasper

Rotten DM
I don't get a lot of the negative voting. The Peace domain, College of Eloquence, and the Monk paths are getting down votes but the sorcerer paths are still around. 🤷‍♂️

The Path of Wild Magic does suck though.
I stab stab stab stabby the weak. 99.9 % of classes I haven't played. And some times just the names tick me off. I love stab stab Stabby the weak.
 

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