Why are healing surges limited?

[Asmor]

After playing a session of KotS last night, I can't help but wonder why healing surges are limited. Players have enough so that they can usually make it through their first fight of the day, and heal completely afterwards, without running out. However, they're often then very drained, making an extended rest desirable. In other words, limiting healing surges makes the PCs want to take more extended rests.

Does anyone have any guesses on the rationale behind limiting healing surges?

 

[Timeboxer]

I suspect because limiting healing surges turns it into a currency.

Imagine some potent magic item that drains healing surges each day.

 

[Oompa]

Making healing surges unlimited isnt an option..

What? Fatigued and taking damage? No problem, healing surge to the rescue.. 2 months of no food and water.. healing surge is the cure..

level 1 paladin vs lvl 8 orc, healing surges are the answer...

So guess there are an lot of reasons to be found why it is limited..

 

[Revinor]

Does anyone have any guesses on the rationale behind limiting healing surges?

1) Without the limit, you will not be able to differentiate between good fights and 'barely-surviving' fights. If you fare bad, you have to use more healing surges. If you fight good, you use less. Basically, it is inter-encounter currency for rewarding good play and punishing bad.

2) There are monsters/abilities which are draining your healing surges (similar to level drain in previous edition). Without the limit, this mechanism would have to change

3) At the moment, it is possible to wear out the adventurers - at some point in the day, they will run out of healing surges and their 'heroesness' will reduce till next day. With unlimited healing each short rest, PCs could probably go adventuring forever, at the cost of daily abilities only.

4) Amount of healing surges is another way to show the difference between 'squishiness' of class roles, without exploding 'buffer' hp differences too high.

5) Limited healing surges promote leader roles, as they can increase the amount of healing you get per each even outside combat (so they allow party to tackle more encounters in given day). With unlimited surges, their utility would be only visible inside a fight.

 

[Bayonet_Chris]

Limits

Your PCs go through all of their surges in one fight? Wow. The limits are there to give the GM a mechanism to push the endurance of the PCs. The idea that the PCs can always rest without a problem seems to a mindset issue. Players don't have a right to get their rest whenever they want it. I can't even ensure I get six hours of rest every day between kids, hockey and work.

If the PCs blow through their surges quickly and there are more encounters to be had before they can rest, tough. They'll learn to either fight smarter or run away.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

After playing a session of KotS last night, I can't help but wonder why healing surges are limited. Players have enough so that they can usually make it through their first fight of the day, and heal completely afterwards, without running out. However, they're often then very drained, making an extended rest desirable. In other words, limiting healing surges makes the PCs want to take more extended rests.

Does anyone have any guesses on the rationale behind limiting healing surges?

I think the logic behind healing surges is so the DM can still make some adventures where the PCs are taxed on resources. In 3E the biggest problem was that their '4 encounter a day' model never happened. (In my group anyway) We just rested after every encounter.
They are also a necessary resource for healing magic, which, unless it is a daily spell, would be just as bad as resting after every fight.
In short: They allow the players to adventure for more then one fight without the obvious need to rest up after each one, while still allowing the DM to structure any kind of adventure the way he or she wants.
... Thats my guess, anyway.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

After playing a session of KotS last night, I can't help but wonder why healing surges are limited. Players have enough so that they can usually make it through their first fight of the day, and heal completely afterwards, without running out. However, they're often then very drained, making an extended rest desirable. In other words, limiting healing surges makes the PCs want to take more extended rests.

Does anyone have any guesses on the rationale behind limiting healing surges?

"Hey, Bob, do you still remember this morning when we where all like 1st level?"
"Ah, good times. Now get into flanking position so we can bring down this damn Pit Fiend!"

 

[Asmor]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that.

Healing is already limited by the fact that it's all achieved through encounter and daily powers. Second wind is an encounter power. Healing word is an encounter power. Etc. Even if the PCs have unlimited healing surges, they are still limited to how many uses they can make per encounter. There are no truly at-will healing abilities (keeping in mind that Lay on Hands is limited to a number of daily uses).

I like the idea of healing surges having different values; I like that it's easier to heal the tank and harder to heal the wizard. I just don't see any reason why you should limit any particular character to being healed a particular number of times per day. The only healing that really matters, game-wise, is during combat, and there's already limits on that.

Add in the fact that they get an action point when they take an extended rest, and it just seems like the smart thing to do. There's no reason the PCs should ever not take an extended rest if the option is open to them.

I'm probably going to try out a house rule (posted about it here) where there's no limit on healing surges, and after every encounter you gain an action point but after every extended rest you start with 0, so the first fight of the day is the only one you can't use an action point in.

 

[Caleidoscope]

But one good thing about this is that you will not feel guilty as a DM when forcing the players on when they could've rested. You can press them (the players) a little harder now. Just imagine 3rd or previous editions how at low levels the wizard or fighter after 1 encounter were depleted of juice (hp or spells/day) - now you can continue after 2 or even 3 encounters.

 

[Gargoyle]

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that.

Healing is already limited by the fact that it's all achieved through encounter and daily powers. Second wind is an encounter power. Healing word is an encounter power. Etc. Even if the PCs have unlimited healing surges, they are still limited to how many uses they can make per encounter. There are no truly at-will healing abilities (keeping in mind that Lay on Hands is limited to a number of daily uses).

This is a good point. But you haven't seen all the powers.

I like the idea of healing surges having different values; I like that it's easier to heal the tank and harder to heal the wizard. I just don't see any reason why you should limit any particular character to being healed a particular number of times per day. The only healing that really matters, game-wise, is during combat, and there's already limits on that.

Another good point. The number of healing surges seems to be another way of differentiating how easy it is to heal someone, perhaps it's redundant.

Add in the fact that they get an action point when they take an extended rest, and it just seems like the smart thing to do. There's no reason the PCs should ever not take an extended rest if the option is open to them.

But what if the villain is sacrificing innocents/opening a portal to the abyss/smothering kittens right now? With encounter and at will powers, the PC's have a chance to do something, even if they've blown their dailies, so rests aren't going to be as frequent as in 3e, at least IMC. There will be reasons not to take an extended rest, but I think the reasons will be more story/quest related.

I'm probably going to try out a house rule (posted about it here) where there's no limit on healing surges, and after every encounter you gain an action point but after every extended rest you start with 0, so the first fight of the day is the only one you can't use an action point in.

I plan to read the rules and run a few games first with the RAW before implementing any house rules; there might be some complications like higher level healing powers that are at will. I think that if I started my 4e game with house rules I would provoke OA's from my players.
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