Why are hit points generated randomly?

[diaglo]

now the 6hp guy avoids killing blows more easily than the 1hp guy when he is hit.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

I prefer fixed hp just as I prefer point buy, although I'll accept randomness in the former because, IMX, it makes much less difference.

The reason it's not a slippery slope toward fixed damage is because damage, hit rolls, etc. are randomized in play.

With that said, I actually do prefer a great deal less randomness in play - I just haven't found a tabletop system that handles it the way I like, and definitely don't see a way to graft such a system to d20.

 

[shilsen]

With that said, I actually do prefer a great deal less randomness in play - I just haven't found a tabletop system that handles it the way I like, and definitely don't see a way to graft such a system to d20.

Have you tried out Mutants and Masterminds? Since it uses a damage save based on the power of the attack (which isn't randomized by rolls, though it can be by feats like Power Attack), it lowers a few elements of randomness in play. That's one reason why all you need is a d20.

 

[Desdichado]

Umbran, I don't think that's the slippery slope you claim it is. There's still a very big divide (IMO) between randomly rolling up an ability score, or hit point roll, or something else that will be with the character forever and randomly rolling up a to hit or damage roll that usually only affects the combat that you're in at the time. Granted, the possibility of death could be forever, but it's still a fundamentally different exercise, and I don't think that tweaking things on one side of that divide leads to getting rid of it on the other side at all.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that to best enjoy the game, players need the ability to build the characters they want to play within the system and within the confines of what the GM says is appropriate for the campaign and setting. Randomly generating stuff about characters that is forever is directly contrary to that goal.

Says the guy who admits that he can't quite give up rolling hit points. Oh, well. Non serviam makes a good point too--one thing escalating hit points does is make combats drag out, and at higher levels combats are already significantly draggy.

 

[rgard]

In an online game (at playbyweb.com) I'm in, the party warblade has been rolling horribly for hit pts and is currently 1 hp ahead of the completely non-combat incarnate. We were discussing this and I started wondering if the die rolling method of hit point generation is a sacred cow that could use killing.

After all, it's the only standard class-based benefit in the game which is randomly generated. The other standard class-based benefits, namely BAB, saves and skill pts, all go up at a fixed rate, even though all of them have the same built-in assumption as hit pts, i.e. that some classes will have more than others. The rogue, for example, doesn't roll d12 for skill pts every level while a fighter rolls d4. So why have that for hit pts? They have just as much of an effect on a character's survivability and playability as saves do, and arguably more than BAB (since not all classes are dependent on BAB for effectiveness) and skills (since all classes aren't dependent on skills, as all do depend on HP to some degree).

The only real reason I can think of that hit point generation is die-based is because it's always been that way in earlier editions. What do you think? Am I overlooking some other major reason? And would it be a bad thing for the game if classes had a fixed HP progression?

Yes, it's a bit of an anachronism.

In 1E we stuck with the random rolls for hit points and in 3E we initially did as well. Later in 3.5E I changed my campaigns to a minimum of average plus .5: d4 = 3, d6 = 4, d8 = 5, d10 =6 and d12 = 7. We still roll and if the player gets something better than the minimum they keep it.

Of course the BBEGs and their minions benefit from the same rules.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Hjorimir]

Like a couple of the others, we use high-side o'average here.

 

[DragonLancer]

For the same reason that attributes should be generated randomly, because otherwise everyone is a carbon clone. Variety is the spice of life and gaming.

 

[shilsen]

Says the guy who admits that he can't quite give up rolling hit points. Oh, well. Non serviam makes a good point too--one thing escalating hit points does is make combats drag out, and at higher levels combats are already significantly draggy.

Really? What sort of levels and length of combat are you referring to? My Eberron game is up to a fairly high-powered 13th level now, and we've found combats at these levels to take almost exactly as many rounds as lower level combats used to take. The escalation in PC (and NPC) ability to inflict damage actually outstrips the increase in hp by level, I think, plus the existence of more powerful spells and abilities makes it even easier to bypass hit pts and take people out of a fight than it was at lower levels.

 

[rgard]

Really? What sort of levels and length of combat are you referring to? My Eberron game is up to a fairly high-powered 13th level now, and we've found combats at these levels to take almost exactly as many rounds as lower level combats used to take. The escalation in PC (and NPC) ability to inflict damage actually outstrips the increase in hp by level, I think, plus the existence of more powerful spells and abilities makes it even easier to bypass hit pts and take people out of a fight than it was at lower levels.

Yes, it shouldn't make a difference, but what I found is that the biggest drag on combat is when players don't know their characters well enough (usually the player whose character died last week and he just rolled up somebody new) when it comes to total plusses to hit and damage modifiers. That can happen at any level of campaign, but is worse in high level campaigns.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[shilsen]

For the same reason that attributes should be generated randomly, because otherwise everyone is a carbon clone. Variety is the spice of life and gaming.

I think most of the people running games with point-buy and variations of it would be a little surprised to be told that the PCs are carbon clones of each other. I've simultaneously been (and am currently) in games with point-buy and rolled ability scores, and there's been absolutely no lack of variation between characters in either of them. With classes, skills, feats, spells, etc. present in the game, there's more than enough mechanical variety to be had, IMNSHO.