Why are hit points generated randomly?

[Doug McCrae]

For the same reason that attributes should be generated randomly, because otherwise everyone is a carbon clone. Variety is the spice of life and gaming.

We have feats and skill points now.

 

[Desdichado]

Really? What sort of levels and length of combat are you referring to? My Eberron game is up to a fairly high-powered 13th level now, and we've found combats at these levels to take almost exactly as many rounds as lower level combats used to take. The escalation in PC (and NPC) ability to inflict damage actually outstrips the increase in hp by level, I think, plus the existence of more powerful spells and abilities makes it even easier to bypass hit pts and take people out of a fight than it was at lower levels.

Anything in the teens. The higher level spells do mitigate that somewhat (although they slow the game down even more, so I don't know if "mitigation" is really an appropriate description of what they do) but it seems most combats are longer, more drawn out, and frankly rather boring battles of attrition until some spell finally overcomes SR and saving throws and brings it to an end.

 

[DragonLancer]

I think most of the people running games with point-buy and variations of it would be a little surprised to be told that the PCs are carbon clones of each other. I've simultaneously been (and am currently) in games with point-buy and rolled ability scores, and there's been absolutely no lack of variation between characters in either of them. With classes, skills, feats, spells, etc. present in the game, there's more than enough mechanical variety to be had, IMNSHO.

My experience with game systems that use (or can use) point buy systems, whether D20 or GURPS or whichever, there just is not enough variation from one campaign to another. Thats my experience and the reason why I like rolled stats and HP.

 

[Lord Zardoz]

The first hp rolling variant I ever came across was in Empire of the Petal Throne in about 1977 or so.

Each level you rolled all your HD again (including the new one), if your total was higher than before, you got it, otherwise you stayed at the previous level.

The upside of this is that a poor roll at one level doesn't penalise you for the life of the character, and excellent rolls don't give you a boost for ever either - it meant that everyone tended towards the average for their level, but still had the excitement of rolling.

In my current games I use 'roll, minimum of half die size', the other DM uses 'player rolls, they choose to keep it or go with the DMs roll (which they take however low it is)'.

Cheers

I actually like this idea. I am now in the process of considerng it for my own game.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Have you tried out Mutants and Masterminds? Since it uses a damage save based on the power of the attack (which isn't randomized by rolls, though it can be by feats like Power Attack), it lowers a few elements of randomness in play. That's one reason why all you need is a d20.

I'm quite fond of M&M, but it doesn't address what I'm talking about. If anything, I think M&M combat can be even *more* random because of the wide variance of a d20 roll.

I'm talking about a system where the 'hit roll' is abstracted away almost entirely; in d20 terms, one where a 1 is a miss, a 20 is a crit, and there's naught but a plain old hit between them. Damage would likely be fixed at multiples of 10, ala Star Wars Minis, but would be modified (perhaps a percentage, since it's pretty easy to calc when dealing with multiples of 10) by things like flanking, back attacks (realism be damned, I'd be using facing), relative height, cover, etc. - most of the things that currently modify the attack roll.

The idea would be to place the onus of success or failure almost purely on the tactical decisions of the player, but I'd be inclined to leave at least a small random element.

 

[Remathilis]

I actually love the idea of random hp. I make my PCs roll hp, even at first level. It teaches PCs that they can't randomly wander into dungeons and expect to trade blows with vicious monsters. I mean, the fighter with 2 hp is going to be smart and use tactics, not just be a meat-shield.

In fact, I'm trying to develop ways to add more random element to character stats. I've considered rolling for starting saves (1d3-1), rolling for skill points (Fighters 1d4, druids 1d6, bards 1d6+2, rogues 1d4+4) rolling spells known (wizards start with 3d4 spells known, +1d2 level. Sorcerer start with 1d4 per spell level + 1d2 level) and randomly determining which stat gets boosted every 4 levels (1d6: 1 = str, 2 = dex).

Guaranteed no cookie-cutter PCs after THAT!


(The opinions presented are satire and hyperbole for comedic effect. It should not be read as a slam to anyone's gaming philosophy. Nor should it be read as a legitimate way to run your game unless you have an aversion to "players". No animals were harmed in the forming of this post. Please don't ban me.)

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

HP are a part of a character's abilities. Unless you roll for skill points, spells, and randomly determine whether you can raise your BAB, Saves, etc, you shouldnt roll HP.

I max them out for PC's and tough NPC's. Other guys get 3/4 HP, mooks get average.

I like randomness in play, and none in character generation.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Yeah, and verily!

I like having a few things in the rules that make the player and character adapt to developing conditions over time.

There's also a bit of slippery-slope of rules development to consider. Assume, for the moment, that hit points by level are fixed per class. Well, might as well do that for monsters, too, right? Then, there will be the pressure to make damage a fixed thing as well (since it is measured against known hit points, this leads to more mathematically sound balancing). And, of course, there's already point-buy stats. So, now we have standardized stats, hit points, and damage. Why, precisely, would we want to keep random to-hit, saves, and skill checks? Why not just go diceless and be done with it?

At some point along the way, you realize that there is some point to randomness in the game. All that remains is a decision as to where to draw the line between fixed progressions and randomness.

Uh huh. Because One clearly mandates the other.

How about you roll for your personality? And what you take a level in! Rolling dice is fun, and so is randomness! You shouldnt even get to decide your actions in combat, because that's boring and leads to cookie cutter type combat, where the fighter attacks and the wizard casts a spell every round. SNOO-ZERS!

We can both play that game, but it really doesnt contribute to anything.

 

[Gwaihir]

My players roll for hitpoints. I like the (brief) tension it creates. I often let them reroll a 1 ("oops I didn't see that you'll have to roll again)

I also always offer that they can take half +1 (i.e d4 =3 d12 = 7) instead of what they rolled, but then they need to use that for the remainder of the characters life. Nobody ever takes me up on that though.

 

[Doug McCrae]

I've considered rolling for starting saves (1d3-1), rolling for skill points (Fighters 1d4, druids 1d6, bards 1d6+2, rogues 1d4+4) rolling spells known (wizards start with 3d4 spells known, +1d2 level. Sorcerer start with 1d4 per spell level + 1d2 level) and randomly determining which stat gets boosted every 4 levels (1d6: 1 = str, 2 = dex).

Oh, yeah? Well we randomly roll what system we use:

1 = Dungeons & Dragons*
2 = Tunnels & Trolls
3 = Palladium
4 = Man, Myth & Magic
5 = Powers & Perils
6 = Lords of Creation

*With a subtable for editions, obviously