Why are ranks limited?

[Storm Raven]

From a game design perspective - Why are the max ranks of skills limited to level +3? What mechanic is being addressed or balanced here? Thanks in advance for the input.

I believe that it was intended to eliminate the "Johnny One-Note" syndrome that crops up from time to time in character design. This is most common in point based systems like GURPS or Hero where by heavily focusing your point spending you can create characters who are so good at one thing or another as to be able to break the system in a hurry. They are useless for anything else, but their specialty allows them to be so overwhelming that it doesn't matter.

Specialist characters are fun. Hyper-ultra-specialist characters are not.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Prestige class requirements are another good reason.

Not really. If the limit weren't there, the prerequisites would look different.

But there have to be limits. I could imagine a rogue putting all his skill points into hide and move silently. He'd never get spottet (except by the character with all ranks in spot and listen...). A rogue with all his points put into intimidate, and you'll have a 1st-level character bully great wyrms. And we don't want to consider a rogue with all ranks in use magic device (or an epic wizard that puts everything into spellcraft: at 21st level, he could cast vengeful gaze of the god - even without the backlash...)

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

ne c'est pas?

Its "n'est-ce pas?"

i know i know it has nothing to do with the current thread, and its certainly not wise to correct a mod's french, but hey, this is the rules forum, and you broke the rules of language.



Maitre D

 

[Numion]

In D&D the characters capability at overcoming foes and obstacles is strongly tied to his level. Removing skills from this 'axiom' would make the game more unstable.

Adventure design would become harder because instead of 4th level party the adventure should be designed to hold up against a 4th level party and all the one skill twinks.

And what would would you fix by removing the limit? The 'expert blacksmith is 20th level expert' - problem? Good for you, but I'm much more intrested in how D&D handles adventurers than it handles commoners.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The other problem with allowing twinked out skills is that it is damn annoying when the DM pulls this on you.

Does it add to the fun when your high level Elven Ranger with the Alertness feat fails to spot the low level Rogue? No, the results will just feel arbitrary.

The principle raison-d'etre of the level based system is to create a measure of stability and predictability about the probabilities of success. If the skill contests feel arbitrary in the context of the overall power of the opposing sides, then the d20 system would be serving you poorly. A more qualitative or rules lite system would give much more bang for the buck.

Hyperspecialized characters can work in some superheroes games, weirdly focused powers are part of the genre. But it doesn't fit in a heroic fantasy campaign.

 

[The Little Raven]

Hypersmurf

Cosmopolitan is a Forgotten Realms feat. Not everyone plays in the Forgotten Realms, so that doesn't always apply. Iajitsu Focus is also not a core skill, and the only basic class that receives it is not a core class.

A 1st-level human rogue (Int 12) could have 22 languages, yes. However, such a character would have trouble walking and chewing gum without hurting himself. He'd be able to speak any language you'd come across, but he couldn't really accomplish much else, could he?

(8 (class) +1 (intelligence)) x 4 (1st level) + 4 (human) = 40 skill points

Common (automatic) + one other (from intelligence bonus) + 1 language per 2 skill ranks = 22 languages

A 1st-level human bard (Int 12) could have 26 languages.

(4 (class) + 1 (intelligence)) x 4 (1st level) + 4 (human) = 24 skill points.

Common (automatic) + one other (from intelligence bonus) + 1 language per skill rank = 26 languages

The bard can still outdo the rogue in that area.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A 1st-level human rogue (Int 12) could have 22 languages, yes. However, such a character would have trouble walking and chewing gum without hurting himself. He'd be able to speak any language you'd come across, but he couldn't really accomplish much else, could he?

That's a serious exaggeration.

He suffers a -4 penalty relative to the "Rogue starting package" on a dozen or so skills, but he's still a more effective character than the average commoner.

-Hyp.

 

[The Little Raven]

That's a serious exaggeration.

He suffers a -4 penalty relative to the "Rogue starting package" on a dozen or so skills, but he's still a more effective character than the average commoner.

Of course it's a serious exaggeration. That's the point.

The fact remains that yes, you could gain those 22 languages, but you wouldn't be a very effective character outside of dealing with languages.

I know, I made a character like that, and he ended up dying because of the first trap I attempted to disable... missing the DC by a single point.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I know, I made a character like that, and he ended up dying because of the first trap I attempted to disable... missing the DC by a single point.

Then you shouldn't have died... the trap only goes off if you miss the DC by 5 or more...

-Hyp.

 

[The Little Raven]

Then you shouldn't have died... the trap only goes off if you miss the DC by 5 or more...

-Hyp.

I wrote that wrong... I missed the "neutral zone" by 1. If I had put a single rank into Disable Device, the trap would not have gone off.