He was a fantasy/science-fantasy author.
Why are sci-fi scenarios so thin on the ground?
He was a fantasy/science-fantasy author.
Jd Smith1
Hero
That's like saying Napoleon was a military officer.
D&D's magic system was lifted chapter and verse from his Dying Earth stories. Nothing original about D&D magic, or really, any of the system. They pasted Vance'sa magic onto Chainmail's basic combat system, and added probability dice. And dumped into Tolkien's Middle Earth.
Khelon Testudo
Cleric of Stronmaus
Vancian magic is standard to D&D, but is no way standard to fantasy fiction in general. So in that aspect, D&D isn't generic fantasy, but has its own assumptions. There are probably others, but this stands out as highly idiosyncratic.
A few more sci-fi adventures come to mind I had not seen mentioned yet. Sticking more to "grand campaign" items than one adventure.
Seven Worlds was a sci-fi great campaign for Savage Worlds. Interesting mix of "realistic sci-fi" and solid DM advice on how to deal with technology to engage in roleplaying. They had a concept of an AI avatar that each player had easy access to that would even do that web stuff modern players expect. The AI even had a role in combat to assist with holographic aiming, peaking around corners and triggering fire systems while the player focused on not getting shot. Not everything was a home run, but some great content.
I think someone up thread mentioned Bulldogs. There is a campaign called "Revenge of the Fury" that was quite good if you like FATE. Had moments with a very intentional Star Wars vibe, right down to glow stick swords and space wizards.
I recall Fria Ligan ran a 2nd kickstarter for Corirolis that had some sort of grand campaign. I don't play the game so cannot speak to it.
Hope that gets you on the trail of something your group would enjoy.
Seven Worlds was a sci-fi great campaign for Savage Worlds. Interesting mix of "realistic sci-fi" and solid DM advice on how to deal with technology to engage in roleplaying. They had a concept of an AI avatar that each player had easy access to that would even do that web stuff modern players expect. The AI even had a role in combat to assist with holographic aiming, peaking around corners and triggering fire systems while the player focused on not getting shot. Not everything was a home run, but some great content.
I think someone up thread mentioned Bulldogs. There is a campaign called "Revenge of the Fury" that was quite good if you like FATE. Had moments with a very intentional Star Wars vibe, right down to glow stick swords and space wizards.
I recall Fria Ligan ran a 2nd kickstarter for Corirolis that had some sort of grand campaign. I don't play the game so cannot speak to it.
Hope that gets you on the trail of something your group would enjoy.
To be fair, y’all, a lot of magic in fantasy that isn’t based on a particular RW magical belief system is just as idiosyncratic as Vancian magic. Hell- most don‘t even go into the mechanics as deeply as Vance did...and he didn’t exactly get into the nitty-gritty.
So to criticize Vancian magic as somehow an outlier requires ignoring the work of a lot of other writers’ work.
So to criticize Vancian magic as somehow an outlier requires ignoring the work of a lot of other writers’ work.
I know that but it's still a bizarre and non-standard system. The places where it appears can be counted on one hand: Dying Earth, Dungeons and Dragons and Discworld, and it's questionable whether Discworld should count, since Vancian magic was pretty much handwaved away after the second book.
And Vance may be a significant sci-fi/fantasy author, but he's certainly not more significant than J.R.R.Tolkien, H.P.Lovecraft, J.K.Rowling, George Lucas, William Shakespeare*, C.S.Lewis, Wu Cheng'en**, or Stephen King, all of whom use more conventional magic systems in their writings
*I don't remember Prospero or the Weird Sisters preparing spells
**The author of Journey to the West
Jd Smith1
Hero
Vance created about half the concepts used in D&D/RPGs. And his magic system makes tremendous sense if you actually read the books.
Jd Smith1
Hero
I had never heard of Bulldogs. I'll find a review. Thanks!
There is no standard magic system in fantasy. Most writers don't explain how magic works, it just does.
I haven’t read them, but as I understand the Potterverse stories, you have to be born with magical talent.
In the Dresden Files, magic is corrosive to technology, and while there are enumerated rules of magic, they govern the actions of practitioners, not the magic itself.
In Shannara, we know that magic is corrosive to the beings that use it. And not everyone can. Beyond that?
Pretty much all the magic in LotR is subtle and controlled by beings beyond mortal ken. What are LotR’s rules for accumulating magical ability?
Meanwhile, in Moorcock’s writing, most magic flows from making pacts with powerful, unearthly beings.
In Harry Turtledove’s Darkness novels, we’re exposed to the rules of magic over the course of the series, as new mageries are discovered through intense research. But anyone who knows the spells can cast them. And divine magic is altogether different, mysterious and seemingly more powerful.
Niven’s fantasy writings often involve use of the natural resource of mana. The Magicians series had a similar concept, but the source was created and controlled by higher beings who could cut it off if they wanted.
The magic in Landover stories functions like the debits and credits on an accounting sheet, and it does NOT automatically refresh. You have to earn more magic.
How does magic function in Rosenburg’s Gaurdians of the Flames stories? Piers Anthony’s Xanth? How about Narnia?
Prospero may not prep spells like a Vancian caster, but neither does Shakespeare tell us exactly how he does the magic he does or why Ariel serves him.
Etc.
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Khelon Testudo
Cleric of Stronmaus
Vancian magic is a great choice for a role-playing game, with its inherent limitations great for defining the limits of power and uses. I commend Gygax on his choice. But the many methods of space travel in SF compares well with the many forms of magic in Fantasy. So I'm not sure that explains why D&D is more popular than, say, Traveller - to attempt to address the thread topic.
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