Why are some NPCs so amazingly irritating? (e.g. Khelben Blackstaff)

[Lurks-no-More]

IMO, what it really boils down to, especially in the case of FR, is that the NPC's are SO POWERFUL, that there's no reason for PC's to do anything except go tell Daddy that the mean guys are trying to kill the good guys again.

This assumes, in my opinion wrongly, that Elminster / Khelben / Simbul / whoever isn't occupied by whatever Manshoon / Szass Tam / Larloch / whoever is up to (and vice versa); that they are inclined to interfere in the matter (Khelben, for example, is LN, IIRC; unless some evil development affects either Waterdeep or magic, I can perfectly well see him saying "Tough luck; I've got more important things to do"); and that their interference wouldn't cause more trouble than it's worth (Szass Tam: "So, Simbul has gone to the aid of this village, annihilating the petty wizard troubling it with one spell, along with his band of ogres. Why would she do this, unless the matter was vastly more important than it seems... hmm." *dispatches some Red Wizards and henchcritters to find out*).

Of course, if you get involved in some Faerun-shaking war or magical cataclysm, Elminster and others are going to also be involved; but if you're going to be totally outshined by them, the odds are you wouldn't have been able to do much anything about the issue anyway.

 

[The_Gneech]

I know a VP for Microsoft's pet PR company... I might be able to hook you up with a home visit from Bill Gates if you're nice Moria...

Really! I'd like to have a few words with him about IE's anti-compliance (not just noncompliance) to W3C standards, and MS Word's general crappiness overall!

-The Gneech

 

[Rabelais]

Really! I'd like to have a few words with him about IE's anti-compliance (not just noncompliance) to W3C standards, and MS Word's general crappiness overall!

-The Gneech

Well, unless you're the editor in chief of Parade magazine, and plan on doing a puff piece with some nice soft focus shots of him wearing a snappy sweater vest, I think the really tough questions are going to have to wait...

 

[Rabelais]

This assumes, in my opinion wrongly, that Elminster / Khelben / Simbul / whoever isn't occupied by whatever Manshoon / Szass Tam / Larloch / whoever is up to (and vice versa); that they are inclined to interfere in the matter (Khelben, for example, is LN, IIRC; unless some evil development affects either Waterdeep or magic, I can perfectly well see him saying "Tough luck; I've got more important things to do"); and that their interference wouldn't cause more trouble than it's worth (Szass Tam: "So, Simbul has gone to the aid of this village, annihilating the petty wizard troubling it with one spell, along with his band of ogres. Why would she do this, unless the matter was vastly more important than it seems... hmm." *dispatches some Red Wizards and henchcritters to find out*).

Of course, if you get involved in some Faerun-shaking war or magical cataclysm, Elminster and others are going to also be involved; but if you're going to be totally outshined by them, the odds are you wouldn't have been able to do much anything about the issue anyway.

Which is exactly why Mr. Greenwood's homebrew isn't ported into my game without modifications! I've decided to neuter my major NPC's and simply have them be plot exposition mouthpieces, if I decide to use them at all. Which, pretty much so far, I haven't

"But then it's NOT FR!!!!!!"

My response is "Tough Noogies"

And another thing... If my players aren't involved in Toril-shaking events, they might as well stay home and open a pub. It was another person that said that they just cut out the middle man and have the characters speak to the gods directly. Brilliant!

Hercules didn't go track down Perseus. Bellerophon didn't go track down Hercules. Hercules didn't track down Jason. If they had a problem, they prayed to the gods, or had the hand of the gods directly intervening in their lives. Put the Deus back into Deus ex Machina!

Far be it for me to criticize! If you want your Deus to be Epic Mortals, go right ahead.

 

[Ranger REG]

Not to start a flame war or anything...

*spray gasoline over the whole thread and posters and lights a match*

But I personally find many of the FR characters to be amazingly annoying. For example, I'll agree with Blackstaff, and toss in Drizzt and ELminster. (Interstingly, the Realms has also produced one of my favorite characters, namely Cadderly from the Cleric Quintet.)

I think it's because, in my personal version of D+D, the focus should be on the PC's. They should be the impetus behind the major story-arcs, and stories should revolve arond them.

Heh. This is why I don't like WotC statting out iconics. It fosters petty resentment from players and DMs. Sadly pathetic.

 

[Lurks-no-More]

Which is exactly why Mr. Greenwood's homebrew isn't ported into my game without modifications! I've decided to neuter my major NPC's and simply have them be plot exposition mouthpieces, if I decide to use them at all. Which, pretty much so far, I haven't

"But then it's NOT FR!!!!!!"

My response is "Tough Noogies"

I've never actually seen anyone play FR and use the major NPCs as anything as PEMs. Nor anyone saying it's "not FR", except the people who dislike the said NPCs.

And another thing... If my players aren't involved in Toril-shaking events, they might as well stay home and open a pub.

Or, they might go and save their home village from the evil wizard and his ogre minions over three or four levels of adventuring, without either Simbul or Szass Tam getting involved.

 

[S'mon]

The NPCs make FR unusable for me - whenever I tried to run FR it turned into a kill-the-annoying-NPCs hackfest.

 

[The_Gneech]

Well, unless you're the editor in chief of Parade magazine, and plan on doing a puff piece with some nice soft focus shots of him wearing a snappy sweater vest, I think the really tough questions are going to have to wait...

D'Oh! I never get to kick the hinders of captains of industry!

And so many of them need it so badly, too. :\

-The Gneech

 

[Keeper of Secrets]

I think one reason they come off as irritating is because some of these NPCs were the pet characters (or NPCs) of the designers. What started out as adding in a character for flavor turned into a monster in no time. You need some name dropping? Just toss Elminster around and there you go. The PCs don't manage to save the day in an epic situation? Don't worry. Elminster will just show up.

The amount of conversations I have overheard involving Elminster and Drizz't hate are too many to recall.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think one reason they come off as irritating is because some of these NPCs were the pet characters (or NPCs) of the designers. What started out as adding in a character for flavor turned into a monster in no time. You need some name dropping? Just toss Elminster around and there you go. The PCs don't manage to save the day in an epic situation? Don't worry. Elminster will just show up.

Or not. I know my players have too much pride to be saved by a figure like Elminster. They'd rather have their PCs killed in a fatal no-win situation and write up new PCs than for me to intervene (other than divinely) by using iconics.

That and one of my players keep asking mewhen they'll get to meet Drizzt, as if he's itching for a fight.

IMNSHO, to use iconics to save the PC's shoulder-deep in trouble is pathetic. Let them die if it is so warranted by chance.