Why are they keeping ability scores?

[Oldtimer]

If ability stats had a say limit of 20 it would be fine. But as it is it breaks the higher the abilities get to go.

Why?

If the rule was "roll under your ability score on d20", I could see how it breaks for scores over 20, but why would d20 + ability score vs. DC break? Mathematically you've just doubled the influence of the ability compared to the random factor.

 

[Wormwood]

My two complaints about 4e: 3 book buy-in and that 30 year-old bugaboo: numbers that stand for other numbers.

Not much I can do about the first one, but I smell a house rule a-brewin' for the second.

 

[simply not edible]

Whoops! Double-post!

 

[simply not edible]

"I ran the mile in -3 minutes".

Okay... This is just awesome!

"Why aren't you running?"
"Why bother? I've been a mile away for three whole minutes now! You just never saw me leave."

Especially when you consider it to be actually, theoretically possible for someone running faster than light. Now that would be an awesome feat.

Sorry... I couldn't resist...

 

[xechnao]

Why?

If the rule was "roll under your ability score on d20", I could see how it breaks for scores over 20, but why would d20 + ability score vs. DC break? Mathematically you've just doubled the influence of the ability compared to the random factor.

Too much a steep curve as of the rate of importance of the ability factor versus the random factor.

 

[Cadfan]

xechnao- The steepness of the curve is what is attracting people to the idea. There are some things that a strength 18 person should be able to do and which a strength 10 person basically should not. Smashing a door might be an example. A steeper curve helps modify this.

Personally, I think they should fix this problem in a different way. Instead of Strength Check DCs to break doors, they should just make it an attack, with a Hardness threshold set so that low strength characters can't beat it. There are some difficulties with this as well, but I think they're fixable. I can't know exactly how without knowing how damage is calculated though.

 

[Oldtimer]

Too much a steep curve as of the rate of importance of the ability factor versus the random factor.

Yes, the curve is twice as steep as that which we have now, but I still fail to see why it breaks for ability scores over 20. It's still linear - it's just that +2 on your ability score gives you +2 on your roll, instead of +1.

 

[kennew142]

I guess getting rid of ability scores would be one sacred cow too far for me as well. One of the things I absolutely hate about True 20 is the lack of ability scores. Even Mutants and masterminds kept them. I wouldn't stop playing the game, but a lack of ability scores would drive me crazy while I was playing or GMing.

I suspect that lots of folks would feel the same way. There is no logical reason, just a sense of wrongness to having abilities listed as negatives (- 5 to infinity).

 

[xechnao]

Yes, the curve is twice as steep as that which we have now, but I still fail to see why it breaks for ability scores over 20. It's still linear - it's just that +2 on your ability score gives you +2 on your roll, instead of +1.

How is it linear if it is a curve? At the low ends differences of the abilities are very important while at the high ends not only are the differences unimportant but even the mere random factor as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

xechnao- The steepness of the curve is what is attracting people to the idea. There are some things that a strength 18 person should be able to do and which a strength 10 person basically should not. Smashing a door might be an example. A steeper curve helps modify this.

Personally, I think they should fix this problem in a different way. Instead of Strength Check DCs to break doors, they should just make it an attack, with a Hardness threshold set so that low strength characters can't beat it. There are some difficulties with this as well, but I think they're fixable. I can't know exactly how without knowing how damage is calculated though.

Also in favor of a different mechanic.

To often, breaking down doors boils down to taking 20. That destroys the image of strong warriors beating down doors to make their point.

The current rules try to achieve that only high strength character can beat down doors, but they need a lot of time. Plane Sailings approach would probably remedy this problem, too.