Why are thrown weapons so underwhelming?

WalterKovacs

First Post
A) Most thrown weapons are heavy, so they are already using Strength instead of Dex for MBAs.

B) If you are a class that has a mix of melee and ranged (rogue, ranger, artificer, bard) you don't just have the action economy to think about (switching between different weapons via Master at Arms), but also item economy (you can either purchase both a magic melee and magic ranged weapons, or you can have a single weapon that does both). There are also feats to consider (while Master at Arms also covers any weapons you use in melee or range, you also have things like weapon focus, and other weapon based bonuses, like making your axes high crit, that would only apply some of the time). Bows, and crossbows, don't exactly have a lot of feat support compared to blades, axes, hammers and spears.

The minor action to switch (Via master at arms) is still a minor action, not to mention switching to ranged does mean you either need to use a second minor, or wait a turn before going back to the melee (thus screwing up possible OA chances. With heavier crossbows, you also have the minor reloading (unless you take yet another feat to make it free).

Ultimately, it's a trade-off ... a thrown weapon isn't as good as a purely melee or purely ranged weapon because it's effectively both. Like a weapliment, or a dual-weapon, a big part of the benefit is not increasing the number of "mandatory" magic item slots for your character. If you aren't using it as a main or offhand weapon, it may not be as useful (but unless you have inherent ranged powers, or equal dex and str, you wouldn't really be deciding between ranged weapons and thrown weapons anyway).

Versatility has a drawback ... by being able to use a weapon in melee and at range, you get something not the best at either. If the weapon is only ever going to be used for ranged ... it's better to get an actual ranged weapon.
 

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yeah, plus you have the advantage with say a hand axe of not needing to have multiple enchantments to pay for. They can be pretty handy for say a BM melee ranger where you really don't want to have to keep a bow up to snuff for use now and then but do really want to have a decent (and STR based) ranged capability.

You're unlikely to want to focus on something like that, but it has its uses.
 

Obryn

Hero
Getting a 'Dwarven Thrower' Mordenkrad, and tossing those around as a Seeker... oh lawd. Get all RBA and all the appropriate feats and items to boost RBAs, and you rarely miss and do a ton of damage.
Oh, I know. I threw together a Mordenkrad Hunter the other day, and it rocked.

But. You shouldn't have to rely on an enchantment to make these weapons even decent. Odds are, you'd like some other enchantments than Farbond, Dwarven Thrower, and Hungry.

-O
 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer
Odds are, you'd like some other enchantments than Farbond, Dwarven Thrower, and Hungry.

-O

Crashing (lvl 4+)

the enchantments on my parties weapons are: Crashing, Dwarven Thrower, Acidic (1/encounter make a MBA @ range 5) and a defensive staff for the wiz.
 

Klaus

First Post
I think the Tratnyr is very underpowered for a superior weapon. It should equal to a non-superior bow, maybe with a slightly decreased range.

And possibly, I'd open the barbarian feat to most characters, the one that turns any off-hand, one-handed weapon into a heavy-thrown weapon.
 

Yeah, I can't see any reason why that feat is barbarian specific. Tratnyr is just a sort of doofy weapon. It is a javelin that does d8 damage. I'd rather just see it folded into spear and the range shortened. So you get a javelin that is d6 and longer range, or a spear that is d8 and shorter range. That fits better with sensible weapon types. It makes the spear a tiny bit better, but so what? With say a 3/6 range it is useful in a crunch as a thrown weapon and answers the question "why can't I just throw my spear?" but doesn't really replace the javelin, especially for classes that lack Military Weapon Proficiency.
 

Herschel

Adventurer
I'd like to see tratnyr as a +3/d10 weapon with a 5/10 range. Or heck, give it the polearm orstaff keyword to use hafted defense even. As it stands it's just so underperforming for a Superior Weapon.
 

WalterKovacs

First Post
Yeah, I can't see any reason why that feat is barbarian specific. Tratnyr is just a sort of doofy weapon. It is a javelin that does d8 damage. I'd rather just see it folded into spear and the range shortened. So you get a javelin that is d6 and longer range, or a spear that is d8 and shorter range. That fits better with sensible weapon types. It makes the spear a tiny bit better, but so what? With say a 3/6 range it is useful in a crunch as a thrown weapon and answers the question "why can't I just throw my spear?" but doesn't really replace the javelin, especially for classes that lack Military Weapon Proficiency.

Worse than that, the tratnyr is basically just a trident with better range. [which is basically just a spear you can throw 3/6 range. So from simple (+2, 1d8, versatile) the only improvements going to military then superior is adding heavy thrown 3/6 and then increasing that to 10/20).

In their calculations for balancing stuff out, they really rate the ability to throw a melee weapon highly ... the "best" you can get is +3/d6 for a superior drow long knife, or +2/d8 for various other things. Nearly all of them are one handed ... you don't get a shield (or two weapon defense, etc) with a bow or crossbow, so that is something to consider. Maybe if they made a two handed (not double, since it has defensive and can get two weapon defense) heavy thrown weapon that could make something with a d10 damage die.
 

Klaus

First Post
I'd like to see tratnyr as a +3/d10 weapon with a 5/10 range. Or heck, give it the polearm orstaff keyword to use hafted defense even. As it stands it's just so underperforming for a Superior Weapon.
I'd increase the range, but yeah, it should be something like a throwable bastard sword or something.

Plus, I have my own idea as to how it looks, and that would mean giving it the defensive property. ;)
 

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