Why are Warforged so bad?

[Hand of Evil]

I think one of the other problems is that Warforged have not been around long enough to have spells/monsters to address them. Elfs, dwarfs, humans, all have been around forever and the game has exploited them in lower levels, in time you will see the same with Warforged.

Crap, look a swarm of dire termites...

 

[Storm Raven]

Again, I'm not saying they're too powerful per se. I'm saying they're too different.

I'm thinking that "different is bad" isn't a very strong argument.

 

[ThirdWizard]

The Living Construct subtype spicificly mentions that, unlike other constructs if is subject to effects requiring a fort save, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects. Not only does it list the major attacks of a necromancer, it lists necromancy itself. The major attacks of an assassin is not poison, it is the death attack. Assassins can choose to use their death attack to either paralyze or kill. Warforged aren't immune to death.

Also, living constructs arn't immune to mind-influencing effects. Also, it should be noted that living constructs are also affected by spells that target constructs. So there is some trade-off in the kinds of spells they are effected by.

They're immune to envervation & energy drain. They're immune to energy draining effects of many undead (wights for example). They're immune to ray of exhaustion, contagion, and waves of fatigue. They're immune to more spells. And, this is just one of the benefits that a warforged gets.

They have 25% immunity to death attacks from assassins as well as sneak attack damage. They have feats that can up this.

Enhanced saves, I could see. First level characters immune to entire lines of spells? Come on...

 

[ThirdWizard]

As for arguments that say druids get immunity to poison, that's like saying barbarians get DR 2/- or monks get Improved Evasion, so it's perfectly fine for a 1st level warforged to get it. Those are mid level abilities. That means in a mid level game, they are fine. And, that's just one of the warforged immunities. I could see a +4 save versus poison and disease as being LA+0 abilities, but when you start giving complete immunity to wide ranging effects, these are abilities that take mid level characters' resources to achieve, if they even can.

 

[Seeten]

Dont see where this is a big deal, personally. Dont even mind them stepping on dwarves. In fact, I am sick of dwarves and their surly beards, hard drinking, tunnels under attack from below. Bleh.

Step on Dwarves more. It'd be more polite to remove dwarves first, then put in a replacement, but hell, just step on em. Its more humiliating that way.

 

[Seeten]

As for arguments that say druids get immunity to poison, that's like saying barbarians get DR 2/- or monks get Improved Evasion, so it's perfectly fine for a 1st level warforged to get it. Those are mid level abilities. That means in a mid level game, they are fine. And, that's just one of the warforged immunities. I could see a +4 save versus poison and disease as being LA+0 abilities, but when you start giving complete immunity to wide ranging effects, these are abilities that take mid level characters' resources to achieve, if they even can.

Dr 1/Admantine is equivalent to Power Attack to you, I suppose? What about Cleave? I think a warrior with Chain Mail, Power Attack and Cleave is more powerful than one with Adamantine Body, and Improved Damage Reduction. Just because something is not attainable for someone else, does NOT make it better.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Dr 1/Admantine is equivalent to Power Attack to you, I suppose? What about Cleave? I think a warrior with Chain Mail, Power Attack and Cleave is more powerful than one with Adamantine Body, and Improved Damage Reduction. Just because something is not attainable for someone else, does NOT make it better.

DR 1/adamantine isn't equivalent to Power Attack. I don't see how those are related. The damage reduction is attained from adamantine armor, correct? Then it is equivalent to basically something of equal cost. I would say that giving out DR 1/Adamantine to a level 1 character is a fairly powerful ability, one that should probably not be available until at least 7th level, I would say.

EDIT: It just occured to me that you arn't describing class abilities, you might be describing feats from Eberron? If they're feats, they're fairly weak for feats. For class abilities, or other such abilities however (from magical items?) they are fairly potent. However, my beef is not with possible Eberron feats. A warforged can take Power Attack, Cleave, and such just like anyone else.

As for the last part about something not being attainable... they arn't attainable for a reason. First level druids don't get immunity to poison, ninth level druids do. Elevenths level monks do, as they gain immunity to non-magical disease at level five. Seventh level clerics can make people immune to poison for a time in exchange for their highest spell slot. So, this tells me that outright immunity to poison is considered fairly powerful.

 

[Seeten]

They are both a first level feat. The Human fighter takes Power Attack and Cleave.

The Warforged fighter takes Adamantine Body. They are completely related, and I dont think the human fighter gets the worst of it, frankly.

 

[ThirdWizard]

Okay, so the warforged takes Weapon Focus. I see nothing preventing a warforged from taking good feats...

 

[fanboy2000]

Necromancy Spells Warforged are not immune to:

1. Causes Fear
2. Chill Touch
3. Ray of Enfeeblement (a personal favorite of mine)
4. Blindness/Deathness
5. False Life (another favorite)
6. Scare
7. Spectral Hand (of course, all this really does is deliver touch attacks)
8. Vampiric Touch
9. Bestow Curse
10. Fear
11. Symbol of Pain (if triggered, the warforged are not immune to it's effects)
12. Circle of Death
13. Symbol of Fear
14. Finger of Death
15. Symobl of Weakness
16. Clone (like false life, not really an attack spell)
17. Symbol of Death
18. Astral Projection
19. Soul Bind
20. Wail of the Banshee

There are 41 Necromancy Spells
8 of those either target, control, create, or otherwise deal with undead and wouldn't target most PCs anyways, leaving 33 spells that target PCs, some of them beneficial. Warforged are affected by 20 of thouse, or about 60%. Also, warforged gain the benifits of all the helpful necromacy spells. So if there's a necromancer in the party, Warforged get to benefit from any helpful spells the necromancer may cast.

Of course, this is just one school. The perennial favorite, evocation, is still 100% effective. And then there's my personal favorite, enchantment.

A 25% chance of failure for Sneek attacks and crits isn't immunity. The main argument is that they are immune to to many things right out of the gate, but the main attack of assassins isn't one of them. However, there is that feat you mentioned.The feat, Improved Fortification, grants immunity to sneak attacks and critacal hits at the expence of all healings spells from the healing subschool.

Oh, and for whatever it's worth: Warforged are immmune to most of the effects of Eybite. If they have more than 10 HD, they are immune to it completely.